To be furious at local church carol service

[YogaGrinch]

With our new "fundamentalist " vicar who included genesis 3 16

And other misogynistic patriarchal quotes and suggestions throughout the service -

Listening to the King's college Cambridge service tonight was a completely different service although there too there were some dated patriarchal views shared?

And basically using opportunity of a full church to preach hellfire and brimstone snd call us all hypocrites and sinners rather than preaching love kindness beauty

Never heard anything like it

Was absolutely 💔

Well he doesn't seem to have any power to end world suffering, defeat evil or cure childrens" cancer, or else he doesn't want to. So yeah I guess either powerless or sadistic, so what's the point in worshipping him? Not very good qualities for an almighty god.
Also the whole "worship me or burn in hell" idea, that's a major character flaw. Not very loving and caring.

if someone appeared today claiming to be God, I reckon you’re right that many people would be skeptical or think he was deluded. I would say that is exactly why it’s important to look at the evidence rather than simply dismiss the claims. What’s remarkable about Jesus is that so many specific aspects of his life, death, and resurrection fulfil detailed prophecies written centuries before he was born - from Isaiah 53’s suffering servant to Psalm 22’s description of crucifixion and even the casting of lots for his clothes (John 19:23–24).

People then thought his teaching was radical or even “mad,” and many today still do. But when you examine the historical records — multiple eyewitness accounts, early letters, and independent sources — a consistent picture emerges. It is eerie - CS Lewis says he’s a lunatic, liar or Lord. I guess it is up to us to decide which one of those we think he is for ourselves - and that’s personal. The question isn’t whether Jesus sounded unusual to those around him though; it’s whether the evidence supports the claim that he truly was who he said he was.

i think overall humans would be better placed with faith in science than preachers

suffering and evil are real, and it can feel like God isn’t acting. Human sin is so awful. Christians believe God hasn’t abandoned the world; ultimately, He promises full restoration—a world healed, free from pain, tears, and injustice (Revelation 21:4). Judgment isn’t about being mean, but about justice—choices matter, and evil won’t go unaddressed.

Worship isn’t coercion; it’s about responding to the One who offers hope, mercy, and life in the face of a broken world, and whose character, revealed in Jesus, shows faithfulness and love even now (Romans 2:5-6, John 3:16).

basically dangling the carrot and keeps changing the goal posts with his human interpretations etc

Haha, I get that — but actually, lots of Christians are serious scientists! From Isaac Newton and Johannes Kepler to Gregor Mendel, Michael Faraday, Louis Pasteur, and more recently Francis Collins, John Lennox, and John Polkinghorne, people have done cutting-edge science while holding Christian faith.

Faith in God and trust in science don’t have to conflict — in fact, many of these scientists saw their work as exploring and understanding God’s creation. Honestly, I can’t wait to meet them all in Heaven and hear how they saw God’s hand at work in the universe!

Part of the issue at that time may have been the perceived obligation to profess belief in God, rather than a genuine, deeply held conviction.

From a Christian perspective, God Himself doesn’t change (Malachi 3:6, Hebrews 13:8), and Scripture points to a fixed hope: a world fully restored, where justice is done and we’re made right with Him (Revelation 21:4). The “goal posts” aren’t God moving—they’re us trying to understand His ways, which are higher than ours (Isaiah 55:8-9). But of course, you can respectfully disagree, and that’s okay—this isn’t about me convincing you for my own salvation; it’s just sharing the hope Christians hold as best as I can. I hope that makes sense as to my motive!

I think only God knows our hearts. Maybe i won’t see the full range of scientists in Heaven when I get there, who knows! Or maybe there will be lots more I didn’t even realize ❤️

Sorry but I think your take on Christianity is not really capable of of discussion.

Francis Collins is still alive! He runs the Human Genome project and is a very famous and accomplished geneticist. I have his book called 'The Language of God' which has a big DNA structure on the front. He was involved with the coving vaccine development I think. On a personal note, I know plenty of Christian, Bible believing scientists. One had a science phd and worked for a big international pharmaceutical company. Another worked with AI. Another was a computer scientist. Another was a medical doctor. They were all very devoted Christians who saw science as a measure of God's creation and not another schema in itself. There is a great YouTube channel called Reasons to Believe and it was set up by a Christian astrophysicist. None of these people mentioned are under any threat of being hung, drawn and quartered for their views.

Why would a rational response to a deity supposedly omnipotent and benevolent but who nonetheless betrays not the slightest ability to intervene in his creation be to praise and worship rather than to call him to account?

Thanks for your question, it is one that lots of us have grappled over many times before. I understand why it feels like worship could be the wrong response when suffering is so real. From a Christian perspective, we don’t worship God because He’s ignoring the pain—quite the opposite. We worship because He has acted, most decisively in sending Jesus, who entered our broken world, suffered with us, and secured a way for eternal healing and restoration for those who believe (John 3:16, ‘For God so loved the world, that he gave his one and only son. That whoever believes in him, shall not die but have eternal life’).

God’s ultimate judgment and restoration mean that all injustice, pain, and evil will be addressed. Worship is our response of trust and gratitude for the God who promises to set things right, even when we can’t see the full picture yet. It’s not blind obedience—it’s faith in the One who is both just and merciful, and who has already provided the rescue that makes hope possible. It provides me with great hope, comfort and peace when witnessing evil and suffering. I hope that helps to explain a little bit about the Christian answer to this question from the Bible.

Isn’t it a bit like the online relationship where the emotionally unavailable guy you’ve never met promises everything and that he’ll definitely come and visit soon, as long as you keep trusting him and not questioning why he doesn’t respond to your messages, but he’s done nothing whatsoever to earn your trust, other than one symbolic gesture in the distant past that he also asks you to take on trust?

I see the analogy you’re making, but I’m not sure I completely agree—partly because I’ve never been in that kind of situation with a man, and partly because a follower of Christ has a relationship with God that is deeply personal, a personal faith.

For a Christian, knowing God isn’t just knowing about Him—it’s meeting Him through Jesus. Jesus came into our world, lived and suffered, and died so that we could be reconciled to God (Romans 5:8). That wasn’t symbolic; it was a decisive intervention in human history.
Through this, we can know God personally, not just theoretically. The Holy Spirit then comes to live within believers, guiding, comforting, and transforming us. The Spirit helps us understand God’s Word, strengthens us, and allows us to experience His presence in everyday life. So a very personal relationship. I’m not sure that could be compared to someone I’ve never met online.

The hope Christians have isn’t a vague wish—it’s a certain hope, grounded in what God has already done, continues to do in our lives, and promises to ultimately do in the world. For example, Revelation speaks about him wiping away our tears. No more suffering! The Bible explains this far better than I can—it’s full of the story of God’s love, faithfulness, and ultimate restoration.

Hopefully that helps to explain the hope and the reason that Christians trust in God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and the beautiful personal relationship that is so very different to a human relationship with someone we haven’t met.

because humans in general have written, rewritten i wont trust a single sentence of any holy books.

that said if there truly are gods in the universe then ill consider that a possibility as i follow the freemasonry idea of a supreme or divine deity etc

not to mention the gas lighting that god also does

I get where you’re coming from. If a book were just a human power project that’s been endlessly rewritten, scepticism makes sense — I’d share it too!!

I suppose the only thing I’d gently add is that Christianity doesn’t ask people to switch off their reason or free will. It actually assumes we’re meant to question, test, and seek truth honestly. Even the Bible invites that kind of wrestling rather than blind acceptance - the psalms are full of lamentations and wrestling of this sort!

I also respect what you’ve said about believing in a supreme or divine reality. That instinct — that there is something beyond us — is something Christians would recognise as well. Where Christianity differs is in claiming that this divine reality didn’t just remain abstract or hidden, but chose to make itself known personally in history, in Jesus.

For me, trust didn’t start with “I must accept a holy book,” but with asking whether that claim about God stepping into the world could be true — and only then looking at the Bible as a collection of historical witnesses trying to make sense of that encounter.

i was refering to the distant past and not modern times, proof in point Galileo comes to mind, ?

From a Christian perspective, though, God doesn’t manipulate or deceive us. In fact, He invites honest questions, wrestlings, and even doubt (Psalm 13 is a good example of someone pouring out frustration to God).

The difference is that God acts with love, justice, and truth, and His ultimate plan is to rescue, restore, and redeem the world. We see this most clearly in Jesus, who entered human suffering, died for humanity, and offers a relationship with God through the Holy Spirit. So while it might feel like silence at times, Christians trust that God is not trying to trick or gaslight anyone—He is faithful, present, and acting for ultimate good, even if we can’t always see it right now.

a set of stories with agendas and all based on having faith for the original holy masters to enslave the public with religious chains to bind and control their thinking look at Galileo so much for truth and science and reason with the church

if that was the case then why cast adam and eve out in the first place and cause it all

Personally, I find it fascinating to think about what it will be like in Heaven—if we see famous scientists from the past there! Ultimately, Christianity doesn’t stand or fall on speculation about someone else’s heart or faith. I don’t know Galileo’s heart, but from what I understand, he remained a Roman Catholic and continued to see God’s creation through his scientific work.

To take your business meeting analogy - let’s say you went to the meeting and something unusual happened (good or bad).
Sometime afterwards, the attendees were asked to write down their memory of the incident.

Scenario 1: you read the reports, and while all of them describe more or less the same event, details vary, memories vary, different things are included, emphasised or left out.

Scenario 2: All the reports tell exactly the same story, with every detail accurately remembered.

Which set of accounts would you be most likely to believe? Personally I would be inclined to believe the first set of reports and suspect that the second set of people had got together to tidy up the reports to fit a pre-arranged narrative. Likewise with the Gospels, the fact that each is different, emphasising different things, excluding or including details, makes them more credible rather than less.

(Another example would be police witnesses who all gave identical accounts - it would look a bit suspicious)

heresy
The Church was livid. They sent for Galileo, and he was sent before a judge and tried for heresy. As punishment, his book was banned and he was sentenced to jail.
so much for helping people.