To think sick notes should be easier if employers don’t trust staff?

[DoctorPlease]

If employers assume you’re lying anyway, why make sick notes hard to get?

AIBU to think the system encourages dishonesty instead of trust?

I am confused. It is GPs who issues sick fit notes, not employers.

Are they hard to get? You self certify for 7 days and then even if you can’t get to speak to a GP the fit note can be backdated.

You’re right about how it works on paper. What I’m getting at is more the principle - if an employer fundamentally doesn’t trust staff and defaults to assuming dishonesty, the system ends up creating extra hoops and admin rather than encouraging trust or recovery. Even when fit notes can be backdated, people still end up stressed about getting appointments, paperwork or being believed, which feels counterproductive when someone is unwell.

If your GP has signed you off, then you are signed off. Your GP knows more about your health etc than your boss does.

I was signed off for mental health reasons, and my manager was awful. He had me sat in the office and told me that I had no reason to be off sick. His dad had just died and he was fine and in work so I should be too. He was a massive bully.
It sounds like your boss is similar.

It doesn't matter what employers think or do - if you've got a sick note you've got a sick note.

It’s not up to me whether I believe you or not. Our sick pay insurance scheme needs to doctors note in order to pay out, end of.

I don't think it's particularly difficult to get one. You pretty much just make a gp phone appointment and ask for one and they give it.

Employers shouldn't expect one for every absence. Only after a week or so. And only for salaried staff. If someone is on zero hours, they don't get paid if they're off sick anyway so shouldn't be put under as much scrutiny.

Getting a sick note is really easy you don't even need to see a dr a lot of the time it can just be requested online

Zero hours employees absolutely do get SSP

It's not so much the fit notes etc but very limited sickness policies by employers that treat a 50+ yr old with good work record over a number of years, but develops a health issue the same as an 18 year old who is out clubbing until 5am, rocks up at work late or at 8 and asks to go home 'sick'.

My view on that is that people could simply...not stress. And I know it is easier said than done but, ultimately, your employer is not a doctor. And most people are protected from unfair dismissal (granted, we should have this kick in from day one and not after two years). So a grumpy manager is not the end of the world and hasn't quite got as much power as it seems.

If you’re often too ill to work for more than a week at a time surely you’re going to the GP anyway?

I don’t really understand what you’re getting at, OP. What is the relevance of being believed or not, versus having to get a sick note, versus how easy or hard it is to get one?

Your manager’s opinion is irrelevant. If you have a medical note they can’t deny your sick leave. They can start managing absence however if you’re more absent than you’re in work as you can’t fulfil your role - that’s another process altogether.

Surely getting signed off is a good thing? In the sense that if you self certify for 7 days, you need to call out each day. Whereas with a sick / fit note, they won’t bother you for a period of time?

The principle behind it is that if you are so unwell as to need more than 1 week off work then you should have seen and likely be undergoing some form of medical treatment. The fit note is evidence of that. They are not difficult to get, I’ve had cause in the past to get them and it’s been a simple matter of calling the surgery and either making an appt or having them issue it online.

I was off sick for 6 months with cancer before I could get my oncologist to issue me a note. My GP refused to issue a fit note until I was ‘fit’ to return to work, which I wasn’t with stage 3 cancer. 😂 My employer totally thought I was faking because no one would write a note. Hospital docs all said GP needed to do it. GP said she’d only do it when I was returning to work. It was the most ridiculous administrative roundabout to be stuck on.

I’ve never had a problem getting a fit note….don’t know anyone who’s had a problem….what problem did you have?

I’ve never had a problem
getting a sick note, not that I’ve had many - once I was off for three weeks for mental health reasons, and the other times I was off for a month each for cancer treatment. I just had to make an online request for a sick note for the cancer ones

That's terrible. My cancer was found during an A&E visit and the next day the hospital doctor provided a 2 week fit note, and my GP provided one every 3 months until I returned to work after surgery and chemo. I was off work for nearly 18 months in total. My cancer is stage 3 too.

I needed the fit notes to claim ESA. So your GP was wrong to say she would only provide one when you were ready to return to work. Does she not realise there is a box to say you are "not fit for work"?

Strangely none of my doctors would put cancer on the fit note, they mentioned the surgery. It was only when I asked my GP to add cancer did he put chemotherapy. I was worried work was think I was not telling the truth about having cancer.

Fact - anyone can get a Fit Note.
Its easy.
I manage staff I know !

Actually, I was denied a fit note once. It was when I was at uni (on an HCP course). The GP said sick notes were for people in work, or people applying for benefits. I was not in either group so he refused me one.
I needed one for extenuating circumstances. In the end, I had to see some welfare guy at the uni (I forget the exact name of his role... chaplain?).