Vaccines (not an anti-vax post!)

[Lavenderosemary]

I work in healthcare and manage a medium sized team. I recently went for my covid and flu jabs, I was a bit slack about getting them earlier (just busy and disorganised) but after hearing about this year's flu I got myself organised. I decided to get the very last walk in session. I spoke to any colleagues that I saw in the few days beforehand to let them know this session was available, and reminded them this was a bad flu year.

Every. Single. Person. Said. No.

Every one. All of them.

All the same responses, "I dont bother with vaccines any more, dont need them', 'had a bad reaction once, would rather have the flu/covid'

Ive been in healthcare for over 20 years and I dont ever remember a blanket refusal from front line staff. Is this just my area? Is this widespread? I'm really thrown by this.

I have found the same and I am shocked. I thought it was because I had moved to a different part of the UK though as I have never known it like this. The conspiracy theories among nursing staff about the COVID vaccine has been ridiculous as well. It’s like we have all forgotten what working during that time was like. One of our younger colleagues has had to be put in a coma due to her flu and the impact on her breathing and is so so poorly. Yet still people are not getting the flu jab. I do not understand it at all.

You’re not anti-vax?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

My DH is a dr who is very skeptical now after doing lots of research and discussing with various colleagues. We both know multiple people who’ve had adverse reactions to the covid vaccine, including serious infections of the heart and neurological symptoms. Re the flu vaccine, some years the effectiveness is as low as 15% I believe? I do think it’s widespread to be distrustful now, and some people have good reason to. I don’t think most are fully anti vax but much more cautious and I think that is a good thing.

Beyond the research I’ve done (concluding that flu vaccine as highly ineffective and making no difference to flu death rate over the years), I had a very interesting conversation with an undertaker in the summer. He said he was pro vaccination in principle but wouldn’t go near the covid vaccine after seeing the number of bodies he has since cv19 vax rollout, mostly sudden deaths and corpses with massive rubbery clots.

Are you an immunologist?

I’m surprised you’ve worked in healthcare for 20 years and haven’t noticed the reduction in uptake until now, it’s been very obvious since post covid.

I think the covid vaccine has damaged a lot of peoples opinions. I know of a few people who now have heart / blood pressure issues which could be linked to having covid or the vaccine. We will never know. It was developed so fast and fast tracked which for me is the issue.

I still got my flu vaccine as I’m immunocompromised. But my DH didn’t. I had some horrible flu complications last year and im
aware it’s not always effective but it’s not worth the risk not to have it.

Im still very pro vaccines for children

Yes, I see where you’re going. Unless you’re an immunologist, you’re not allowed to develop informed views about this subject.FWIW, I have a science degree and can read scientific papers. But then so could a lawyer who had the right a- levels. My virologist friend is 100% against the cv19 vaccine and his previously 100% healthy partner (as confirmed by annual ECG’s on the company health) develop serious cardiomyopathy within a week of having the CV 19 vaccine and has had heart surgery. I think an undertaker who is seeing the end result of a lot of of this stuff is a fairly compelling witness.

What you don’t seem to understand is that most doctors and frontline health staff also don’t study immunology in any in-depth way. They literally learn the schedule the theorised basis. There are lots of high profile immunologists, including the inventor of the mRNA vaccine himself, who are against the CV19 vaccine

Don’t assume that people can’t be incredibly well informed, sometimes more so than so-called experts themselves, in areas that aren’t their primary field. And this stretches way beyond medicine.

Many people can only speak from personal experience. I'm one of these.
However I think people are interested in individual experiences.

All my family had every vaccine going up until COVID. I had that vaccine and thought I would die from pressure in my head, chest pain and trouble breathing. I've never felt anything like it.
These symptoms recur every few months but lessen in intensity each time.

Long after my vaccine would have worn off I had covid. The sore throat was unreal, but not scary.

So for me personally and I emphasise the word personally, I feel it's not right for me to have the vaccine.

This is a very clear demonstration of why it’s not a good idea to over-egg claims abour any medical treatment, and to suppress & vilify personal choice.

There are people who need the covid and flu vaccines, and people who don’t, and some of the people who need them will not get them because the government, NHS & pharma industry wilfully burnt through trust - carefully established over decades - out of greed & foolishness & authoritarianism.

The insistence on giving both together is also harmful. My relative (94) has had such terrifying reaction to both together in the past that she will only have them separately. But her GP practice no longer offers this despite knowing the severity of the reaction she had to both together. So she has refused to have either, very worryingly.

My place of work gives us flu vouchers and there were not enough to meet demand - also the local pharmacist where we went to pay for our covid-19 vaccine (£85 each) has had a big rush on account of the news. I am travelling in the S hemisphere early in 2026 and don't want to get sick en route. The current covid-19 jabs are all Pfizer ones which were deemed suitable for all. The first time I had covid in April 2021 was enough of an incentive to get some coverage, likewise flu.

I’ve never had the flu jab (but I had all the typical ones growing up, plus the 3 x covid so not like I’m against them) - just didn’t see what the point was? No kids, so no school contact etc.. Happy to be told I’m wrong on this. I’ve just always thought the flu jab was aimed at the 60+ demographic.

Quote fail

I am simply suggesting that you have not actually done any research.

Can people become very well informed in certain specialist subjects without a formal qualification? Yes, of course they can. But people on forums who claim to have done research in a scientific field are usually bullshitters who have done nothing of the sort but like to sound studious.

And on understanding scientific papers, I have a friend with a degree in law and a second in a scientific subject. I know for a fact that she wouldn’t attempt to critique the paper I have just been reading because she doesn’t know anything about the specific subject.

@EyeLevelStick Think literally whatever you want. Debating you would be like playing chess with a pigeon - I could checkmate you and you’ll still shit on the board

Don’t be silly.

The majority of nurses were like that where I worked some years ago - we were offered free flu jabs and they reacted as though it had been suggested that they had an injection of liquid dog shit.

Outside the elderly, they (and their spouses) were in the demographic that saw the highest rates of death from Covid in the first wave and formed a significant proportion of the patients in the red zone.

I used to work for the NHS. Not clinical (porter). We all got offered the flu jab. I took it once, and was so unwell after I had to take time off. My manager said it was not sick leave as it was side effects from a vaccine, so it was take it unpaid or use annual leave. That happened to a few of us. I learned why no one was taking up the offer of a free jab.

The government really fucked it by forcing and threatening everyone over COVID stuff. Completely broke trust and created perfect conditions for suspicion and conspiracy to thrive.

I also think the fact that clinical / shop floor NHS staff are treated like absolute shit by management has added to the problems there.