Had enough of my dad

[GladLurker]

Always really appreciate the advice on mumsnet. So here we go.

If you've read my other threads, I find both my parents draining. They absolutely dote on my son which is nice, but they are unhappily married and as an only child, a lot of pressure is put on me to see them every week regardless of anything I have on, otherwise I am met with the silent treatment or moods from them.

Couple of weeks ago it came to a head when my son (3 years old) refused to give my dad a hug, my dad was throwing his arms about saying 'what's this all about?' And ultimately sped off in his car in a tantrum as we were outside the house at the time. I had to just distract my son and joey him up as he was confused at grandads reaction.

I told him to deal with it as my son doesn't want to give you a hug and hes only 3. To me, it wasn't a normal reaction to show in front of a 3 year old.

Fast forward to today, my dad sent me a message a week after not speaking to me after I told him to deal with it, he told me that he wasn't angry, just hurt, and that he barely sees my son anymore and that he's sure I'd understand and that he was feeling ok (not that I asked or had messaged him before this). He also alluded that I had made a conscious decision to keep my son away from him. I was absolutely offended by this as we see my dad every week, we haven't for the two weeks prior to this incident as we had norovirus then on holiday the week after. But literally he has seen my son every week of his life.

My dad doesn't work so has nothing else going on. He also only wants to spend time with my son alone and doesn't like to share him with his wife aka my mum as they don't get on.

My dad has a long history of being the victim. I have seen him in fights, walk out of houses in a temper, belittle my mum, he will not accept he is wrong about anything, he kicks cars when they don't work. He is the epitome of a bad tempered man. He can be fine if all is going his way, but we all walk on eggshells and with me having my own family now, I have less and less time for this. My whole family think hed bad tempered etc, its not just me.

Him and my mum fall out constantly and I am stuck in the middle of it. He gets annoyed I won't let him take my son out alone but he is disabled and can't chase my son if he runs off etc (which he does), and also he turned up at my house one day with an incorrectly fitted car seat and got really annoyed with me when I said I'd need to get time to check it first before he used it with my son as I was heading out to work. You never know when he's going to explode.

Today I sent him a message to say his behaviour and neediness for me/my son to keep him happy isn't on, I don't want to be around that behaviour, I told him he's short tempered( he knows this but NEVER apologises and can't take any criticism) i basically said I'd had enough of it.

Anyway I got a reply saying he'd like to meet me for a coffee 'to sort this out' but that ive to be alone and my mum or son won't be there. He also said there's 2 sides to every story, I have no idea what he is referring to as all I've said is that I'm fed up of his behaviour and upset at his comments alluding to me keeping mt son away from him after he didn't see him for 2 weeks due to sickness and holidays. He also said he'd rise above the 'character assassination' i apparently wrote in my message where I called him short tempered and a victim. But he is.

I'm so drained with the hassle he brings, I find it really sad. It must be nice to have a normal family. My dad helped me so much when my son was a baby and would come to my house and play with my son while I cleaned on maternity leave etc. Hes not coping now hes not needed and my son is in nursery but we still see him weekly as its important to me that my son has that relationship, but it's less appealing as time and my dads behaviour goes on.

Where do I go from here...

Thanks as ever for reading.

Stick to your guns. If you meet, just you two, I bet he'll just moan about your mum, saying she makes him the way he is.
So continue as you are, imho, he needs to learn a harsh lesson
Don't compromise your standards, your son's needs or anything else.

Thank you,, you're right.. I'm scared to meet him myself. I told him he needs to reflect on his behaviour, its a shame he hasn't. I know this will all by my fault or someone else's. I don't want to cry in a coffee shop. I just feel like avoiding him entirely. Hes so volatile

Meet your dad and state the following:

1. you will not put up with poor behaviour: tantrums, guilt trips, pressure on your DS, having a go at your mum. Zero tolerance for any of his bollocks.
2. Don’t apologise, justify, argue, explain, just be factual.
3. If he can’t behave himself, you will reduce contact.

You hold all the power here. Your family is more important to you than keeping him happy, always remember this.

Can you hold this meeting off, including contact for a bit longer?

This sounds just like a narcissist family system. Your dad is the head. Although your mum may be a victim of him, she will also enable him to keep herself out the firing line. That adds more unfair obligation on you. Does that sound right?

The reason I said to have space is because I find that's the vital element needed to get clarity of mind and conviction.

Your dad is going to employ many tactics to keep you enmeshed. He's already using fear and obligation. The next one will be guilt I imagine. It's called FOG ( fear obligation guilt). This is used in order to keep you in your role as the one over giving.

You absolutely sound like you're over giving and possibly always have in the family.

The number one thing I would change immediately is this weekly visit crap. There's no way you want to do this. Your mum will come in guilt tripping you over any boundary, especially that. So I would absolutely demand space and time. You need space from their behaviour including through phone, text, SMedia for a bit of time to see exactly what they're doing and your dysfunctional role in it.

If you meet him alone he'll manipulate you and draw you back in. Refuse. Just say "That doesn't work for me" and frame things around what works for YOU from now. Don't centre you're son and don't over explain. He will make it all about his desperate desire to see his dgs, which he is able to do if he plays by your rules so hold the reins tight.
Decide what works for you and offer that only, no more. No solo trips, no guilt tripping. His marriage is his problem, you are not a sponge to soak up your parents misery.

Decline the cafe have-it-out. "Yeah, no thanks Dad".

He should be thanking you for having the patience to explain to him how awful he is.

You owe it to your son to reduce the frequency of their meetings, imo. It's not good for children to have that kind of volatility around them

Your poor mum is being domestically abused by this horrible man and is not want anyone like him anywhere near my family especially my son!! Last thing you want is your child to think this horrible behaviour is acceptable!

Thank you. My mum either hates him and is in tears because of the way he is. Or, they conspire together in their joint annoyance of needing to see my son more than weekly. She has given me the silent treatment before over not seeing my son enough. Although again always seen him weekly at least. If I stop speaking to mt dad she would 100% leave him. They were separated for 20 years and she has become so much more negative since being back with him.

'Thanks Dad, but theres no need to meet to discuss anything, this needs to change for grandson. He's too young to understand why you might feel the way you do, so as an adult you need to control your temper around him, there isn't any explanation that would change that'

Don't meet with him, it won't help things for your grandson, it at best would make your dad feel better and leave you feeling like crap, or at worst leave you both feeling like crap. Set the boundary and grey rock as best you can in the circs.

So, your mum is showing she's capable of manipulating you to get what she needs. Because it's so unhealthy, you do have to be cautious of your mum.

Just cutting them off tomorrow feels like way too much here. The fall out could be huge. Do you know your mum definitely would leave him? You really don't know this. She's gone back to this tyrant and will collude with him in the face of his hideous behaviour.

I recommend looking up Jerry Wise and listening to his excellent podcasts and guidance. He offers a way of trying to be alongside these people, with strong boundaries.

This meeting with your dad doesn't feel like a good idea right now. He will try everything and you could walk into something you don't want to.

There is not one single thing wrong with your absolutely desperate need for a bit of time and space. Space to process. Think. Listen to your intuition. Read more about this dysfunctional enmeshment.

There is no urgency to meet him. He's creating a sense of urgency in you.

You could put them at a distance kindly for now.. Say, nicely, in a message that you need a bit of a break from the dynamic, will text you in a week. And don't allow any contact for this week. No one will die over a daughter at the ends of capacity with them to have a week of no contact. If they can't respect this then next level is needed.

You're very helpful, much appreciated. Thank you.

"The only person who can "sort this out" is you, by ceasing to behave like a spoilt, tantrumming child. When you've decided whether you're going to do that, let me know".

Your son.
Not theirs...
Having a dgc in their lives is a privilege not a right.

Once a week is lots.
Unsupervised given the nature of your df is unreasonable imo.. So what if they get moody?
One day your ds will be older and won't always 'conform' to their 'wants' . What will df's behaviour be like towards your ds? Make him anxious like he does to you.
That's unacceptable op.
Be less available.. Take control of your life.

I think I'd reply there is nothing from your point of view to sort out, you don't want to be around or want your son to be around what you consider to be poor behaviour, so if he wants to see you both he will have to refrain from (whatever behaviour you are concerned about, like sulking, shouting, threatening, storming off) as a response to perfect normal young child behaviour, or you'll protect you and your child from being around this. I'd reiterate that you don't want to hear an explanation or excuse or discuss it in any more detail because there is never an acceptable reason for this type of behaviour. Easier said than done though I know

The only way to avoid being caught in the middle of parental rows and disagreements is to walk away every time, and refuse to engage with conversations where one tries to get you to side with them over the other's behaviour. And do not let your DS become a pawn in the battleground. Grandad behaves badly, DS is removed from the scene altogether. People who behave so manipulatively are unlikely to change now, so you have to change how you behave in response.

The 2 sides to every story sounds like he means yours and his and he’s going to spend the meeting trying to convince you that his side of the story is correct. Personally I wouldn’t meet. Just tell him his behaviour won’t be tolerated around DC so either he controls himself around GC or he doesn’t visit.

Your Dad sounds like he may be autistic - lots of very familiar traits in there to those of us who have had autistic partners. He is not going to change and he is incapable of seeing your perspective or your son's. You have to decide what you are going to expose your son to, and put in place very firm boundaries ( ie removing contact) when those boundaries are breached,

Apologies for derailing the thread, but please don't trott out the 'abusive behaviour means he's autistic' line; you may have an autistic partner who can't or won't see someone else's point of view, that isn't the same for all autistic people. The primary basis for an autism diagnosis is social and communication difficulties stemming from childhood, the fact that he and your partner can be selfish and bad tempered and share some personality traits is not even remotely connected to that, let alone enough for you to armchair diagnose him and tell the OP what to expect.