Who is BU? Mum or me?

[teawithjamandbread2]

My grandmother is in her 90s and her health has deteriorated a lot this year following a stroke in February. It’s been very sad as prior to this she was very independent. My mum has been helping her a lot with things like shopping and going to clean and stay over sometimes.

I have two small dc and dh and I both work so I haven’t been able to do as much. My mum is constantly making snide remarks to me about how I’m not doing enough. I know it’s a hard situation but my mum is unable to make any decisions about her care going forward - she will not arrange for carers or talk to gran about the possibly of residential care but she continues to complain about how hard everything is and how it’s ’beyond a joke’. I’ve seen her get quite stressed and angry with my gran too.

It doesn’t help that my mum has MH and alcoholism issues herself and has always used drink as a crutch to cope with tough times. There have been times when I’ve spoke to her on the phone while she’s been staying with my gran and it’s obvious she’s drunk, so she’s either taking alcohol with her or buying some from the corner shop near grans house. This doesn’t sit well with me but if I challenge it it’s just ‘well you try and come and sit here with her then.’

I wish I could do more I really do. But between work and my dc I do not have much capacity for anything else. My mum has never helped with my dc and despite only living a 5 minute drive from me, Dh and I have not had a day or night off since my youngest was born.

Tonight I broached the issue of carers again and she snapped at me. Saying something along the lines of ‘if you actually ever bothered to visit you’d see that gran doesn’t want that.’ I’m so sick of the attitude and the insinuation that I don’t care and am not doing enough. She hasn’t helped me with my dc so why does she expect me to help her now? I know that sounds cold but I literally can’t do it. And I also can’t deal with her when she’s under the influence as she can be nasty.

Should I be doing more? I really think as next of kin any decisions have to come from my mum but as she’s not in a great headspace herself I don’t know if I should be trying to step in. It’s all just a horrid situation and between the resentment and alcoholism my relationship with my mum has really suffered.

Many elderly people will refuse carers and refuse residential care and try to insist on family (usually a daughter) doing it.

obviously as you work and have young children you are not in a position to offer much if any care, but your mum is most likely struggling herself and criticising her when you can’t offer any help probably cuts quite deep.

I would raise a safeguarding concern with local Social Services, given your mother's MH and alcohol issues.

It sounds like you have recommended everything you can in this situation and you need to wait til your mum is at breaking point and take some of it on board.

You're not unreasonable. However I get the feeling you're a bit resentful that your DM doesn't help with your DC? (Apologies if I'm reading it wrong) If she's looking after her mother with no help it stands to reason she can't help you but she also shouldn't be making comments to you about it. As much as your GM doesn't want to go to a home or have paid carers, if your mother is struggling she may just have to make an executive decision . Caring for an elderly parent is a hard position to be in so try not to take it too personally.

I understand your point but it’s hard to sympathise with you because you come across a little childish and bitter. “Mum hasn’t helped me with my kids so why should I help my grandmother.”
No one is entitled to care from any family member, whether that runs upwards or downwards the family tree. But it’s kind when it happens and doesn’t have to be given in reciprocation.
Either help, or don’t, but own your decision and don’t complain about the decisions others (such as your mother) have made.
I am currently caring for my own mother as her health declines. It’s mentally, emotionally, physically destroying me. No doubt your mother feels the same.

I don’t think you should be doing more but I don’t think you should be criticising either.

I agree with PPs about contacting Social Services: they both quite clearly need help.

I really think as next of kin any decisions have to come from my mum

It sounds like you have a lot on your plate so I would be firm with my boundaries and say you cannot help with regular care and that your DGM needs carers.

However, YABU to think this should all fall on your mum’s shoulders. You are all kin to your grandmother.

My mother is disabled and elderly and everyone pitches in to care for her, including her grandchildren.

Just because your mother didn’t help you with childcare, that’s no reason to not go and spend time with your grandmother, that’s punishing your grandmother for your resentment to your mother.

I really think as next of kin any decisions have to come from my mum

But sometimes they take more notice of professionals than family.

This isn’t a case of tit for tat. I will be honest, I do have some resentment towards my mother who has watched Dh and I struggle with juggling work and kids for the past 5 years (which predates the time that my gran needed my help at all) and has never once offered. One reason for this is because she prioritises alcohol. So yes it does sting a bit to hear how much she is struggling and all of the snide remarks when she has watched me struggle.

However I would never punish her or my gran for this. I try my best to go visit and help when I can even when it means dragging the kids along.

My mum needs help for herself, particularly around her alcoholism and mental health but she won’t accept this. And this, again, has been going on for years a long time before gran got unwell.

Instead of dragging your children along, why don't you just "take them with you"?

I don't think it's unreasonable to have considerable resentment towards your DM, but it's clouding your perception of the whole difficult situation, which is evident in the language you've used in your posts.

It's OK to acknowledge that resentment, but bear in mind that helping out will feel much more of a burden if you can't separate being there for your GM from your understandable hurt and disappointment with your mother.

If you haven't had a good relationship with your GM you simply might not have it in you to extend yourself for her, but if you have it could cause you added sadness in future to not have stepped up at the end of her life.

Keep in mind that this phase is temporary.

Wishing you the strength you need to get through this phase with as little heartache as possible.

YANBU at all. You're working and you have two small kids, the spare time you have is negligible. You're in a shitty position - your mum has the option to try and involve social services so to some extent this is a choice she's making to do the care herself, but then she's just acting as if she has no option and that you by extension have no option too. My family were like this and it was fucking exhausting because you can never have a straight conversation about anything. I was younger than you when my gran got dementia, still in school, and what happened was my mum just started visiting more and more often, I was meeting her there from school every day in the end because my gran wouldn't think to eat unless someone was there. It went on for a couple of years. It was only when the police called us in the night to say they'd come across her walking down the road at like 2 in the morning that finally social services got involved and then it was only because my aunt, who worked in elder care, insisted - till then they were doing alternate day and night shifts looking after her. I don't know how you would care for the needs of an elderly person and 2 children like that at the same time.

Your mum is an unreasonable alcoholic who prioritising drinking. You know that she wouldn't be or have been a safe person to provide childcarer for your DC even if she had offered.

Just ignore her sniping. You are not in a position to provide any care for your grandmother and, even if you could, you wouldn't be obliged to do so.

Your mum is making her own choices and refusing any external help and she is trying to guilt you into helping her. Just pull back from her as much as possible.

do you pop by and see nan
it is nan who is the concern
do you have a good relationship with her?

It’s a huge pressure trying to care for elderly parents, especially if they don’t want this or that.

Your mum is obviously feeling the strain, so just try to support her any way you can, even if it’s just phone calls.

When my kids were little my mum and grandad became very ill at same time and I had to juggle care for both of them and work and kids. It got too much and I ended up leaving work. I can totally see how you don’t have time to do regular care.
One option is to continue to visit your gran but go when your mums not there and reduce contact with your mum. (So avoid the shitty comments)
or you could contact social services and ask they do a assessment. (Due to drinking concern's )
Or speak back, say you are working and have young kids and don’t have the time to do more and if your mum needs more help it will have to be carers otherwise she has to get on with it. (dont mention lack of support from her in past) be firm and if she is rude leave. Everytime. You don’t need her (although you may want her or at least the best version of her) in your life. But she needs you.

Yes I do although her personality has changed significantly with her ill health but yes we have always been close. I used the phrase ‘dragging the kids along’ because they don’t really want to be there. As awful as it sounds.

I do understand it’s hard for my mum and I genuinely have tried to support and advise where I can. What I struggle with is interacting with her when she’s been drinking, this has been an ongoing battle for many years and I have had to put boundaries in place for my own sanity - ie not seeing or speaking to her when she’s drunk. Unfortunately this situation has challenged that. There have been at least two occasions where I’ve visited gran and mum has been there clearly drunk. In any other scenario I would leave but I didn’t feel able to. So it’s hard for me to deal with this element of it too.

I use the childcare issue purely because it pisses me off how she will brazenly say I’m not doing enough (knowing I don’t have the capacity) when she hasn’t helped me in any way not through lack of capacity but because she would rather drink. It’s not a tit for tat issue but it feels deeply unfair that she can say that to me.

Sorry -this also.

what sort of finances are there re: you gran and your mum just out of interest?

Raise your concerns with social care. Also maybe try approaching it differently. Tell your DM you are concerned about the strain she is under, you wish you could help more but you can’t because of the DCs so despite what DGM may want she needs to get social services involved and see what help is available. Old people can become incredibly selfish about not wanting anyone else to care from them and it’s overwhelming. She may need or feel she needs permission to get help in.

I think you’re getting an undeserved kicking from the “no one ever has to help you out” brigade. Sounds like your mother has never helped you out and now feels entitled to help herself when you’re just not in a position to give it. That’s selfish in anyone’s book. Will she also expect you to care for her too when she’s elderly? It’s ok to resent selfish people who expect everyone else to drop everything out for them when they need help, but would never lift a finger for anyone else. On any other thread people like that would be called cheeky fuckers, it’s no different just because it’s a family member.

I’d visit your gran, because you presumably love her and want to spend time with her. But hold your boundaries on providing care that you can’t manage. That’s what carers are for. If your mum is refusing carers then that decision is on her and it’s up to her to manage that.

She can say what she wants - but you don't have to believe it (if she's saying you're being unfair or whatever). And that cuts both ways - you can say what you want to her. Do you? Have you? Ever? As in "you've never helped me with the DC, mum - you reap what you sow". Or "you could have helped me with the DC, but getting drunk was more important". Or "you're retired and I'm not - you could have helped me, whereas I actually can't help you". It IS "fair", in the sense that if she wants to be cruel, two can play that game. You probably won't have to do it much before she lays off.

I have bit back like this on a couple of occasions. It’s very frustrating as she is in a cycle of stress which leads to her drinking which then leads to less ability to cope practically/ make decisions and consequently more stress. I have tried explaining this gently but she doesn’t want to hear it, mainly because she doesn’t want to stop drinking.

Alcoholism is a dreadful problem to cope with for all concerned. I do feel sorry for you.

I think the first post nails it. If there is any sign of a vaguely competent adult to do the caring, then SS will stay as far away as possible.

Sadly I think there is very little you can do in this situation except watch it all go slowly wrong and be there to pick up the pieces.

I know some elderly people don’t like paid help but tough. You need to insist on a sit down with your mom/ nan and any other family to discuss a sensible way forward.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents

Just here to signpost the elderly parents board.

Apologies. I clicked the wrong response. I meant YANBU. I would probably take your gran to gp in first instance and ask for their help. Because of your mums alcohol abuse you may be able to get SW to get involved. You need to be very clear that you don’t help and won’t help.