How to plan responsibly for parents care

[Soleena]

My mum (80) had a stroke three years ago, can just about walk, mentally is fairly but struggles to do much for herself (dressing, cooking, etc)

My dad (83) is her carer, he helps her dress/get into car/cleans her up if she can’t make it to the loo, does the gardening, fixes things, etc etc! He’s fairly well, but has a weak heart and is not a young 83.

It’s not sustainable for him to keep caring for her. My sibling and I would prefer for them to move to supported living of some sort. They could be more sociable there (their house is pretty but isolated) and my dad wouldn’t be under so much pressure.

My mum is dead set on staying in the family home though, it’s very hard to persuade her to even think about it. But my dad can’t go on like this!

I live 3 hours away and have young kids, my sibling also has little kids and works. We don’t want to care for them, albeit we can be on hand to help occasionally, but they need a new plan for every day.

Mum rejects home-helps, says they are annoying and turn up at the wrong time.

We are at our wits end, my dad is crumbling, I want to force the issue as he can’t go on like this. It doesn’t help that my mum can be aggressive and bullying…

What do we do! Has anyone got experience of this?

They have a £700k house they could sell to fund onward care. They live in the south east and their village is a very expensive area, the nearest retirement village is 7 miles away.

i found some nice retirement flats for £400k, which would leave them £300k in the bank to fund their care, is that a good amount for a private care facility that’s a good standard?

I’d be so grateful for any wisdom or kind words, my sibling and I are really struggling with this

thank you

Sorry it’s nota great AIBU. Posting for traffic (desperate!)

Maybe tell your mum if she doesn't get some care in your dad won't be able to cope any longer?? Harsh I know but sometimes you have to be for her to understand. Could you talk to a care agency yourself and see about getting some carers in x

Thank you. The word harsh is actually helpful - we pussy foot around her but it needs saying plainly now. They can’t go on like this

@Soleena i understand. Went through the same with my parents a few years ago. If you need any help please don't hesitate to message me x

Tell your Mum that if your Dad has to continue caring for her he is likely to die, and then she will need other help and have to move. Be harsh, tell it how it is.

You need to separate it into:

Practicalities
-do you have a power of attorney in place?
-what are the available options, how much would they cost, what are the pros and cons, who would realistically be in charge of making the arrangements
-have you arranged a care needs assessment and carers assessment? If not, get those in motion.

Emotional
-consider your own boundaries and how much you’re able and willing to get involved
-ask for help. Any siblings or family friends who can get involved and share the load?
-think about your mum and dad’s wishes and how you’re able to balance those with what’s realistically possible
-work out how you can communicate more firmly, you’ll need to have some honest and potentially quite challenging conversations.

Try to think short term and long term. A retirement flat might be good for a while but they can be a nightmare once care needs get worse due to restrictive leases. Often very difficult to sell.

Do your research and seek legal / financial advice proactively as it’ll help in the long run.

Accessava is a great resource for social care queries. Age UK also has a lot of helpful info.

From experience, it usually reaches a point where social services have to get involved.

Contact their local council - usually the Adult Team.

Respite might be a good place to start, while you, your dad, and mums care team decide what’s next

It's a tricky one. If we look at it from your mum's perspective, she considers herself having two choices 1, Dad cares for her or 2. She has annoying carers coming to the house. Of course, her preference will always be option 1.
And, I am afraid it may not be up to you to convince her that option one is not viable. It is actually up to your dad. He is the only one who can set boundaries here.
What does he want to do?

I’d start with the least objectionable help round the house and push for that as ime if you can break the ‘strangers in my home’ barrier, that’s the hardest thing to do. So gardener, handyman, cleaner are all fairly easy wins to ‘help dad out’ and the cleaner especially (not an agency, someone who works for themselves so there becomes a relationship) is a great gateway and will be fixed times.
But I also agree that some straight talking with your mum is in order. I had to have a very painful talk with my dad that if he wanted mum to stay at home, then they needed help whether he liked it or not. And their carer became the rock of their lives (with a cast of other people) and he got his wish.
TBH though, it usually takes a crisis for anything to actually change

Could they get a good care package in their own home? Likely to work out cheaper than residential care, especially for two people? My Fil has this and it works though he needs personal care as well as meals, etc. However he is fortunate to have a really outstandingly brilliant care company - expensive but he can just afford it. He also employs someone to do cleaning once a week and shop for him. Your DPs would both quallify for what was called Attendance Allowance to contribute towards💐 the costs.

You’ve hit the nail on the head. He will say plenty of things about moving to me privately, but in front of her…he crumbles. He is conditioned to keep her happy above all things

Every now and then I think ‘I’ve done all I can, leave them to it…’

Thank you.

this would be a great idea if we can get mum to agree. She doesn’t fundamentally like people in her space, doing things their own way, though!

she can yell at my dad and control him and he’s so meek after all these years, he does what he’s told.

I wonder if this is the option to keep up our sleeve when our poor dad finally keels over. God it’s unbearable

I’m glad that worked for you - I agree, another crises might have to happen for them to change

(You’d think mum having a stroke and dad having a heart attack would be it, but apparently not!)

Thank you - do you mean respite in a care home? ( As in mum goes into a care home for a few days?)

or do you mean someone comes to care for mum for a few days, and stays in their house?

She has a meek friend who has done that for free once or twice so dad could visit his old work colleague, but understandably the friend has their limits

There's an 'Elderly parents' board on MN you may find helpful.

Can they self fund? My DPs are older but my DF acts as main carer for DM and to some extent vice versa (DM not very mobile, DF forgets stuff). They have a private carer who comes every morning at a fixed-ish time to help Mum get washed and dressed. This keeps the load off DF so they don't need extra help over and above my DB and me visiting alternate weeks. (An hour a day costs them just shy of £250 per week).

Recently they had live in care for 3 weeks as both incapacitated at same time, but once both improved went back to daily visits.

Do they claim Attendance Allowance? It surprisingly isn't means tested.

Unfortunately you’ll have to be harsh with your Mum. My Mum has just got out of hospital and refused the care plan saying she was “fine”- she couldn’t do anything for herself! This is temporary but I was infuriated as it meant I had to do everything as well as working full time and being a single parent. In the end I gave an ultimatum.

My DPs want to stay in their own home.

So at times we have had to say 'this care coming in, or nursing home'.
Whilst simultaneously saying ' we understand you don't like it but there are no other viable options'.

We are lucky they can self fund.

Thanks SO much

I will look at accessava

I hadn’t realised that about retirement flats :(

…I was hoping they could move to a swanky retirement village, pay for a bit of top-up help for my dad, and have lovely times at the cafe, gardens and communal pool (my view of retirement villages may be influenced by the one in the Thursday Murder Club!!)

They are very social, I feel they could be a lot more sociable in a retirement place compared to their current rural cottage where everything is 10 minutes in the car, minimum

When people say ‘they can self-fund’ how much are we talking?

My parents have £700k if they sold their home. That is their only asset.

Does your DM get attendance allowance? It’s not means tested and with her reduced mobility etc. she should qualify for it. The form is a pain to fill in but it needs to be filled in as if she was having her worst day and night to ensure they get an accurate picture of her limitations. Once that money is in place you can start pushing for things because the funds exist. As someone said starting small is the way to go - so cleaner to begin with to get her used to having someone around.

Has anyone tried talking to her about how hard this is for your DF? It might be worth speaking to her on her own and saying that your DF os struggling but doesn’t want to let her down.

Paid for personal care is generally around £30-40 an hour, a care home say £1500-2000 per week per person depending on where you are.

I wouldn’t bother trying to get them to move. Of course it would be sensible but it’s a huge upheaval.

If in their own home they have to self fund if they have over a certain amount of savings (16k maybe, not sure). As long as they are in own home the value of home is disregarded.
However with state care visits there may be less choice over timing of visits etc. Certainly when DM had leaving hospital care sometimes it was 7.30am and sometimes 11am, similar at bedtime.

Attendance allowance helps but won't cover much.

Following on from this, yes apply for attendance allowance for your mother and carers allowance for your father to claim, irrespective of whether they feel they need it. You can apply on their behalf. Then use that money to get home help and some caring help for your mother.
She may not like it but I think you just have to insist and be horribly forceful and insistent. My MIL was the same, refused any help but in the end we found someone to do cleaning but she also helped my MIL with some personal care. My MIL warmed to her so quickly and thought she was wonderful. Also, more annoyingly, was unfailingly polite, kind and respectful to her unlike she behaved towards us! 😆
I think no one likes to admit they're getting older and just can't cope, and to circumvent that you really have to insist... no pussyfooting around or they walk all over you.
We also found a lady to cook my mothers lunchtime meals and deliver them and that was a godsend, even though she initially didn't want those either.
I dread to think the toll this is taking on your poor father, please don't wait until he "keels over" before you get them help.

Your mum has to accept your dad can no longer care for her , that’s it , the situation will get harder the older your dad becomes .

If she needs help cleaning up after toilet accidents you may find that supported living still isn't sufficient.
So I'd be looking at considering:

• adaptations to the home environment if practical
• a targeted care visit to reduce load on your DF
• cleaner / someone to run washing machine loads

You may find that with some adjustments they can keep going for some time.