Have I committed fraud?

[Boxedin2431]

I am a single mum to three.

I have a UC review and bank statements are due.
I have three bank accounts and two I have not declared.
The two bank accounts I have not declared get child maintenance paid in from my children’s dads, respectively.
I have not had any other income apart from the maintenance and some help from my dad sometimes.
i transfer money between all three.
Two bank accounts are in my birth name, the third is in my middle name.

Am I in trouble when I declare them?

I only have UC, child benefit into the one I have declared.
i have child maintenance into one bank account and another child maintenance into the other bank account.

Shall I include 6 month statement for all three?

Some people on UC live very chaotic lifestyles and their banking issues are much more complicated than the OPs - she's not gained any extra income from not declaring the bank accounts - she's not committed fraud. All the dwp want to know is that she's not got savings that she hasn't declared

The person doing the review will probably say to her that she should have declared them - but she's not going to be prosecuted for fraud when she's not gained any extra benefits from not declaring them

Either you've not read the OP, never mind the full thread, or you're trolling for a response.

Do you understand the phrase pecuniary advantage?

That.

Exactly.

Helping one such on a telephone claim as he was clueless with IT.

Been through usual questions about capital beforehand and, having been caught out before by folks with a let second property, included very specifically 'houses you don't live in'

Nothing he said.

Then when asked by DWP he mentioned 'helping out' ex partner -3 by being on her mortgage and, inevitably, being on the Land Register as co-owner.

No idea what happened next.

@Bromptotoo - yes I do. Why do you ask?

This is misunderstanding the difference between money not being counted for UC purposes and not needing to be declared.

Technically, the OP should have declared both bank accounts when the claim was made.

However:
"Universal Credit claimants do not have to declare if they are receiving any child
maintenance as it does not affect their Universal Credit claim."
https://data.parliament.uk/DepositedPapers/Files/DEP2025-0769/029_Child_Maintenance_Guidance_V5.pdf

So if the only money going into those accounts is child maintenance, there will be no consequence of not declaring the accounts unless @Boxedin2431 has not spent the money in the assessment period it is received in or the one afterwards, in which case it becomes capital and does count towards the limit. But she says that she spends it all, so that shouldn't apply in her case.

Dont be ridiculous!

Youll Just need to declare them OP and give them whatever amount of statements they want. Maintenance isnt included in the calculation and if its being spent every month its fine.

Thank you for clarifying that.

I'm guessing you must know more than me then as there is no regulation/rule that considers any part of child maintenance to be taken into account as far as I know. Of course it is a silly hypothetical situation and I'm sure would result in the rules being changed very quickly if it did happen but I am intrigued to know what point the DWP would consider child maintenance given and spent in a single assessment period as capital.

What do you think fraud means? Not declaring her bank accounts has not resulted in op getting any money she was not entitled to and you can have as many names as you like as long as it is not for the purposes of deception, so those things alone are not fraud.

A quick Google search shows that if a lot of money is in a bank account for too long even if it is child maintenance it can be treated as savings

My mistake, I thought you knew something I didn't, now I realise you just hadn't read my posts properly.
Yes, Google is correct. The hypothetical situation I laid out was someone who spent the entirety of the child maintenance every month so it was not in the account for long enough to be treated as savings.

I did read your posts. I posted earlier saying if someone had a million pounds and spent it it would be treated as deprivation of capital

I don't think I'm wrong on either point I made

No, you said that if they were given £1mil in child support that "there comes a point" that it would be treated as capital. I asked what point that was and you said if it was in their account for "too long" it would be treated as capital. I agree that if it is in the account longer than an assessment period it would be treated as capital, but in my hypothetical situation it is not. The rules have not been made with such a silly situation in mind so as I posted earlier, technically it would not be treated as capital. But what do I know? I only work for the DWP, you used Google.

Ah ok. You win. Silly me. Here I am being made a fool of by a dwp worker because I'm not one. When I googled it was quite clear that if someone had a million pounds in their bank for a certain time period it could be considered capital. Someone else said that they could spend a million pounds and I said that would be deprivation - sorry I said anything at all.

Right - I'll let you get on with your hypotheticals. No need to try and make a fool of someone because you're a dwp worker and I'm not.

Sorry about that - I'm just on UC myself and one of the people on here some people hate

Because to make an allegation of fraud stick there needs to be a gain or advantage.

On what's been posted the OP gained nothing.

I'm not sure you're entirely correct on this. My understanding is it has to be for the purpose of gain which, as you will know, is different from actual gain at the time. " ....is defined as the wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain."

You're wrong. She doesn't have over 6k in savings that the dwp don't know about. She's not committing fraud but you seem very invested in trying to say she has - why is that? I am going to say this one more time. When someone has said they are under stress. Leave them alone. Stop trying to find reasons to validate your point of view. The person doing the review will deal with this issue. Not you or me or anyone else on here

She is not committing fraud

@Roobarbtwo I thought we'd moved on to a discussion on making an allegation of fraud stick. I'm not invested in anything; it seems you're just up for an argument and you're the one prolonging this. Anyway, good night.

No I'm not. You're the one keeping this going. Goodnight

Well I don't hate you, I was on UC for many years myself, circumstances change. I just pulled the DWP card as you were were digging your heels in about me being wrong even when I was agreeing with you! I must learn how to walk away from an argument...

Contact Citizen's Advice and ask for advice. Morally you have done nothing wrong in my view; but CAB are experts in this area and will confidentially advise you

Don't worry. Just explain you didn't think you needed to declare the other accounts because you didn't have any money left over after your expenses and your child benefit wouldn't be counted. They have better things to do than "throw the book at you" as some people here have warned. For your own peace of mind, contact a free legal advice centre / advocate for people on social welfare. And stop worrying!

Of course you need to declare everything, they are going to tighten things up because lots are not declaring stuff.

Just be honest and tell them you didn’t realise. It’s obvious it was an honest mistake- if you were really trying to hide it then you wouldn’t be moving money around between 3 accounts. You would be using each account separately.
im sure it will be ok.