Lasting Power of Attorney - why so expensive and why isn't everyone nudged to do one?

[housemonkey]

My parents have been filling in their LPAs, which are inherently useful and mean that it's clearly set out what they want done in case of serious illness. In their case, they don't want anything at all.
https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/make-lasting-power
But why on earth is it such a ball ache and why on earth does it cost £92??
If my grandmother had filled one of these out, it would have saved the NHS literally hundreds of thousands of pounds for an utterly joyless extra month in her nineties that she didn't want.
But these forms are complicated (they're on it and organised, but have struggled) and not everyone has £92 lying around! Why aren't they readily available (and you could just be referred by eg your GP if it was something you were interested in?). It's crazy! I totally understand that not everyone would want one (and that's obviously fine), but if you are, it should be straightforward and free.

They have completed an advance directive, thanks.

It's actually less than 6% according to this - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5a7e15b6ed915d74e33eff4d/opg-lpa-infographic.pdf

Sorry haven't read the full thread so apologies if this has been said before.

You can make an LPA yourself via the public guardian website and down load the forms. You do need an independent witness.

You don't NEED a GP but if the person making the LPA is older (60s ++) and there is a risk that unhappy relatives may challenge it on the grounds the person lacked capacity when they made it, it is prudent to get your GP to record that you are in sound mind and mentally competent. For most people this won't be necessary. It's more important eg if you are making the LPA in favour of 2 out of 3 children and the third child is estranged, then there is a potential person who may want to challenge the LPA if it is later used.

If he had done a free advance directive it would have helped. Third party access to bank accounts is also free and useful.

I think it's quite straightforward and cheap when you think about the important matters it is dealing with and the admin involved, though I can understand why many people would struggle with it, and it's easy for me to say as a solicitor.

However, I don't think you should make it too easy given the financial powers or say they can give someone potentially unscrupulous. The process still could be abused, but you wouldn't want to make it so easy that say, it becomes a target for identity thieves and organised crime.

They have chosen the GP as the co signer. That was a choice.

£92 isn't expensive for something that is arguably as important as a will and probably doesn't even cover the cost of admin.

It's not a ton of paperwork. It's a simple straightforward form with guidance how to do it quickly and easily.

I mean I can keep saying that my competent 70 something parents found it a complicated ball ache and you can keep saying that they didn't, but neither of us are learning very much.

Cool. So why do you think less than 1% of people have one?

I think it's because they don't want to think about the future in this way

I also feel as if you're confusing power of attorney with advanced directive. I have power-of-attorney for health and welfare with Mum. There's literally no instructions written in it. Because I would deal with that when the time came. But she does have a DNR registered with her doctor. That was free (although the doctor wasn't very happy about it).

so confused.

Possibly because they can't be arsed, don't think anything will happen to them, don't have friends or family to appoint, feel it's intrusive and takes away their independence and decision making, suggests they will become senile. Why do you think the take up is low.

£92 or £200 isn’t a lot of money. I wouldn’t expect anything “official” to cost less. having paid for a divorce. you know it’s coming if you want it so you save. I say that as low-waged

Oh! That's not an LPA, that's an Advanced Decision, a document where you specify what you want to happen in if you are involved in a medical emergency and are unable to tell the medical staff your wishes.

The ICE info is kept in a fridge, ir anywhere in the house, it can contain a community dnar and an advance directive, it costs nothing. If someone doesn't want emergency care they don't have to call paramedics.

Mainly because, as you say, people aren't made aware of them and I agree should be nudged to do them And because people in their 40s like you don't think they need to do a will yet so don't even contemplate the other things that LPA can cover. I am always surprised how many parents of young children don't have Wills and make incorrect assumptions about what would happen with their kids and their money.

I am always glad to see Martin Lewis address it from time to time to bring it to wider attention. I am not sure how else people can be nudged (especially when there is a demographic seeking to ignore it for now/it doesn't apply to me yet).

I am not saying your parents didn't find it a ball ache but I am saying it is just a simple form because it is. They seem to have over complicated matters or perhaps they didn't but just want something to moan about? Who knows?

For all those who have a health LPA please also be aware you can give details of your attorney and even upload a copy of your LPA to your NHS MyChart.

Even though I have LPAs I wasn't aware of this until I recently checked some test results on mine so have uploaded mine.

Thanks for starting the thread because hopefully it will raise awareness and people can see they can do it for as little as £92 or free if eligible.

Few people would know what level of care they need, if you have a heart attack or a stroke for example you could have several choices of treatments, a register wouldn't cover all the options.

I think it’s important when you get on in years and especially important if you are elderly and single. If you get a dementia diagnosis it won’t be as straightforward to just do one then because capacity has to be proved . Then it becomes difficult for your family to support you easily ( paying bills, sorting out and paying for care, maybe helping you downsize or move to a carehome etc) Obviously if you don’t actually trust anyone close to do it rhen it would be social services making the choices for you and managing everything when you could no longer do it yourself. I’d rather my kids decide for me personally if DH is no longer around or capable.

Yes, my parents had me set up their finance LPA as soon as they realised the hoops DH was having to jump through when his DM was incapable of sorting her finances out. Deputyship is costly and time consuming.

Exactly the situation with my Mum. She wanted me to deal with her finances ASAP, which I do whereas the health and welfare isn't invoked as she has capacity.

Yes. @housemonkey I would take a look at the elderly parents board, the Alzheimer's Society board and Carents Boards to get a sense of the hoops and pain people have to jump through to get care and finances sorted when there isn't an LPA in place. Even where there is an LPA in place it can still be very challenging. The upfront costs are unbelievably cheap and affordable for many people. However, in my experience people don't want them as they (a) don't understand the implications of not having one (b) don't like the idea of ceding control to someone else (c) believe the worst case scenario won't happen to them.

The costs of funding an LPA for everyone would nowhere near off set the costs of care at the point in time the vast majority of people need them. Care home costs are in the region of £1800 per week where I am. Nursing care infinitely more.
£92 up front cost is less than a dental appointment, less than many people spend on fuel in a month, less than eating out and less than most life insurance policies.

Money saved now towards one, is money well spent in my experience. Think of it as an insurance against the worst possible scenario.

Without it, it took 9 months for the Deputyship to be in place due to delays at Court, meanwhile we were being expected to underpin M's costs and even when we refused to cover care costs it was all the unforseen bits like getting nightwear that could be used in a care home, or toiletries, that added up. In total it was over £6k by the time we accessed all the relevant accounts.

I couldn't put my loved ones through what I have been through over the past 12 months and if it means cutting back on expenses elsewhere to afford it I would do, if only to make things easier for the rest of my family.

Having LPA doesn’t give you the power to bump people off / let them die if they are well enough to last years in a care home, as you describe.

Not necessarily. They are free or at reduced cost for some people.

It’s double that. 2 people for the health & financial one. 4 forms.

Absolutely this. You or whoever nominated can have complete control over all aspects of the life of the person the form is for. Money, care,wishes (or not). Given some of the threads on here checks and balances are v.necessary to stop people enriching themselves at the expense of their family

DH and I are in our 40s and have recently completed both LPAs. My elderly parents did them a few years ago and my brother and I are their attorneys after each other.

I think it's an essential part of life planning but agree it is expensive and we delayed a few years before having the means to spend £400 on something that may not be needed (hopefully) for many years. I suppose it's similar to a funeral, life insurance or writing a will which all incur a cost, they're all miserable things to pay for but add security to your life and death. We don't expect to review them for several years as we age or if we became ill so the cost will pay for itself over the years.

I don't think it's a well known process and the friends we have discussed it with haven't done it despite having the financial means.

The forms did take some time, level of literacy and concentration to fill out (I had to make a correction to mine) so understand that may put many people off and push them towards paying a solicitor, which adds further cost.