To ask for help with my 4 year old

[Hernamesnoelle]

Feeling so helpless right now. DD is 4. She's a lovely little girl and I feel bad even writing this post but I've been finding parenting her so tough recently that I'm starting to question if it/she is 'normal' and if I'm even close to doing this parenting thing right.

She won't really do as she's told. If I tell her not to do something she will immediately just start to do it anyway and if I physically stop her (gently obviously) the situation will quickly turn into a massive wobbler from her. I've read about and tried 'natural' consequences but to be honest there seems to be very little consequences that bother her and I don't like resorting to consequences that will spoil things for other people like saying we won't go on a planned outing for example.

I dread evenings. They are just painful and exhausting. She refuses to eat her tea (says she 'doesn't like it' about pretty much everything these days). Doesn't want to get in the bath. Then doesn't want to get out of the bath. Refuses point blank to put her pyjamas on or let me brush her teeth to the point where I have to physically restrain her to do it. Won't stay in bed for her bedtime stories. When it's lights out she gets up multiple times and when I give a consequence she throws a fit and it takes her so long to calm down I just wish I hadn't bothered. Every night. Same for getting ready for school.

She doesn't speak to me politely, demands everything, shouts constantly. Recently she's started hitting me and throwing things at me again. If we go out and I tell her not to do something she will still chuck herself on the floor like a 2 year old and kick and scream at me. At home she won't do anything by/for herself she just follows me around whinging and making demands.

I'm just so drained. I don't enjoy evenings any more. I get anxious thinking about the weekends. School don't have any concerns but the more time does on the more I question potential nuerodiversity of some sort.

Has anyone else had similar that could offer any help?

She’s 4. Stroppy age. Push back on unreasonable behaviour and use usual discipline. It'll pass.

Age 4 was absolutely horrendous for my DS. He's a lot better now. Is your daughter in Reception? This time of year is particularly tiring and difficult for little ones at school.

Parenting is tough. Some children are easier to handle than others at different ages and we don't get to pick.

There are lots of resources available to help you build skills in parenting - link below has a wide range for the 3-5 age group

https://oxfordhealth.nhs.uk/hv/3-4/positive-parenting/

Health visitors can be a great resource for advice.

Yeah in reception. A young one too (summer born).

Bath wise give the fve minute warning then pull the plug out. Offer a lovely warm pink towel for her to be lfted out into.

Dear god @Sunshineandoranges , why a pink towel 🤔. Please don't tell me you believe pink is for pretty little girls and blue is for boisterous boys?! Although I do agree with pulling the plug!
@Hernamesnoelle anything you can reduce as a battle is good. So don't do bath every night. Consequences should be immediate, never something that will affect another day or a big trip. Only use a threat if you don't mind following through. Ignore some behaviour, so neither negative nor positive feedback from you if you don't like a behaviour. Make sure that you're not having a battle because you like things one way, for example, you will clean your teeth before you eat breakfast - if they prefer the other way roll with that. Good luck, it will get better.

This is it then. They are knackered from being compliant at school and the time of year. Try and keep the demands/ what you require of her to a minimum within reason.

Consequences need to be immediate and not something the next day.

I'd probably ask for this to be moved into parenting as in AIBU it will bring out all the "children didn't behave like that in my day" brigade.

Yeah that age sounds normal. That's also when i threw gentle parenting out the window as i recall 😂. Scary fair but firm mommy was born. And through hard work on both sides i managed to mould a wild 4 yr old into a lovely calm child who i love spending time with. Your job is just that - make your child a lovely person to be around, one that YOU want to be around. That way you both win. Good luck. Seriously a little bit of shouting traumarizes no one.

Definitely go for a firm voice and clear boundaries. If she is struggling with the evening routine, take time this weekend to make a visual timetable for the evening with dinner - bath - teeth - story - bed. Pictures for each (let her colour them). Then stick it up on the wall (eg outside the bathroom) and tell her you are going to follow the timetable each evening. If she tries to argue, you can say “ what does the timetable say” and she will find she can’t argue with a piece of paper. That fixed many bedtime rows for my kids.

She is probably just exhausted. As others have said, pick your battles. Work out what the essentials are, be firm on them, and let the rest go. If everything becomes a battle, that just becomes the norm and ineffective. A bath is definitely not essential every night. If she doesn't eat her dinner she won't starve.

This time of year Reception children often turn into unrecognisable, unpleasant I won't say the word.

They ave had a lot of change and it's exhausting. Lots of consequences, plenty of consistency, praise for good behaviour and no nonsense.

Mine was the same at that age, it was so exhausting. I remember trying and failing to get her out of the bath for an hour and having to take myself into another room to cry. Agree with all the above about them being exhausted and having no emotional capacity left. You're her safe space to offload, but I know that doesn't make it any easier. Some things that helped me:

• I cut down baths to twice a week and did whatever I could to make them bearable. Sometimes that meant letting her eat dinner in the bath while watching something on her tablet. As soon as I could I shifted her to showers (we have a walk-in shower) which she loves.
• Do as much of the bedtime routine as you can as early in the day as possible. Mine is 8 now and still when she's had an exhausting day, I get her into pyjamas straight after school so that it's done.
• Do teeth straight after dinner when she's got more energy.
• Have a snack myself just before bedtime. Often I was losing my rag because I was too hungry to hold it together.

Would also add that in December I use the advent calendar to great effect. She can only open it once she's totally ready for school.

Yep! My just turned five year old can be a nightmare at the moment x_x

I did a task calendar with ticks for the tasks that had to be done. And she can choose the colour or sticker to put after the task.
Tea ✔️
bath
PJ’s on
brush teeth
bedtime story
lights off 🛏️

Honestly all those behaviours sound completely normal and familiar for that age. It is tough, and will pass and get easier/change into different problems!

A few things you could consider which might help if you haven't already tried them:

Where possible, try to avoid just saying "don't do something" but instead say what you do want her to do to give positive direction. For example instead of saying "don't draw on the table" try "can you draw on this notebook?" or "help me wipe it clean now please".

Some cases do need "don't" like "don't run into the road" or even "you don't hit people, it hurts them. They get sad or angry, and might make them want to hit you" and suggest something physical she could feasibly do instead (depending on where you are and what is nearby) if she has that kind of energy to exert.

What does she like about what is next? Can you make things sound more fun? E.g. why doesn’t she like getting out of the bath? Can you use that to get her in the bath? So instead of "get in the bath now" try "look at this bubbly water to play with" or "is it time to play with your fishing rod/insert favourite bath toy?".

Have you tried asking what she wants to eat for tea sometimes, or asking her to help make it? Otherwise if she doesn’t want it, sometimes it is ok to say ok if you aren't hungry, no food then (No food means no snacks either) and go straight to bedtime. They can get more tired than you or they think.

Teeth brushing, ours liked the hey duggee teeth brushing song for a bit. A 2 minute countdown timer/stopwatch was a favourite for a while. Sometimes though physically restraining her is the only/best answer. Making it a clear non negotiable that has to happen is definitely for the best in the long run.

Oh and it goes without saying there is ONE option for dinner. No alternative meals, cereal, toast if you don't eat. Swap baths for showers. Doesn't want to wear pyjamas - don't then. I don't wear them myself! Ignore shouting and screaming. She will wear herself out in the end.
Teeth brushing is a non negotiable though

I think she is angry about something. It plays on her mind and makes her emotional.

She sounds exhausted

School is very tiring at that age, she'll be knackered.

Lots of early nights and low key weekends.

You could try giving choices e.g do you want a wash or a bath tonight? Do you want to brush your teeth or should I do it?

When she's naughty don't raise your voice at all and immediately take something away like a toy, cartoons ect Don't give chances as that makes them push boundaries for longer.

When she does something good praise it as much as possible and try and ignore the bad behavior or be monotone about it so that your reaction is boring to her.

Also accept that sometimes it's just impossible and hard work and just know that all parents are thinking the same when their kids go through these stages. I had such a shock when my kids turned 3 😂 it was hell sometimes and I didn't know how to handle it at the time.

Thank you all so so much - for the advice and reassurance that it's normal. She's started this whole new little life with school and new friends etc, it must be so exhausting and overwhelming for her but I'm hopeful now we will get through it.

Also OP, what is her current bedtime? My child is in Year 1, but a year ago I made his bedtime a whole 45 minutes earlier which really helped with this same behaviour.

We’ve also tried this in the last week with a definite improvement in behaviour (particularly in regard to getting ready in the morning!)

When bedtimes were difficult for us it helped my patience massively to make it a her-time issue: going to take 2 hours to get to sleep? Fine, bedtime is now 5pm. 2 hours of tantrums and asleep by 7pm.

I also took the approach of eat it or don't but there isn't different food or a snack before the next meal.

Tbh, we never had morning issues but I'd absolutely tell her (and go through with) telling her that if she doesn't do as she's asked to get ready, she will be late and she can explain why to her teacher.

Fwiw, all sounds normal exhaustion amd barrier pushing for Reception. It's really exhausting for them, even if they've been used to nursery. The whole first year is tough, but I remember the fortnight's before half term and the whole of the first term of Reception being the worst of it. Hang in there, you're doing great.

Totally in the same boat! My summer born 4yo has turned into a little devil!

but I’m also hopeful it’s the adjustment to school. It’s so much for them. She’s so lovely sometimes but omg some days she just has her mad head on and just hates us all!

she goes to bed at 6.30 any later and omg she is insufferable!

im trying to kill her with kindness at the moment and lots of cuddles when she’s stressed as shouting is just getting me nowhere. Lots of time out/peace and quiet for her she seems so overwhelmed sometimes !

my eldest is 10 and I remember similar but she was a winter baby and seemed to settle into reception so much easier I think those 6/7 months age wise make such a difference