Is this the norm in secondary school? Will it likely change come GCSEs?

[Samesdaynight]

So my child's secondary school does not have sets based on ability which I find quite unusual. They seem to have been put in sets for maths but for everything else they move to different lessons together as a form class.My question is, when they choose their GCSEs is this likely to change? Are the classes then split up? I am just wondering how this usually works and if anyone has come across this before?Thanks in advance.

It should be explained on the school’s website. In year 7 it is not uncommon not to teach by ability group but this often changes by year 9/10. Gcse partly depends on demand for the subject as some may only have one or two classes and how they fits within the timetable for other options.

My youngest has just finished secondary school and oldest finished a few years ago. In years 7 and 8 they were only set for Maths, but for years 9-11, they were set for everything, other than a couple of option subjects that didn’t have that many kids doing the subject.

My DCs secondary don't stream for anything except maths in year 7 and 8. Now she us in year 10 and studying separate sciences more classes are separated by ability including also PE, weirdly.

At my sons school everything was mixed ability apart from maths and english until year 9 when they were separated by ability.

Our school in Ireland is rubbish for this as they have mixed ability classes right up to Leaving Cert (A levels).

There’s some really disruptive kids in that year too. I feel sorry for the teachers trying to control them, let alone teach them anything.

The only classes they stream are the Higher level English, Maths and Irish.

I’ve told DS he’s better off staying in the Higher level class for Irish (a subject he hates) simply to avoid the messers. He can drop to Ordinary level for the actual exam.

I suppose it depends on how big the school is. My youngest's school didn't set for anything at first, then for GCSEs they set for maths and science. English was mixed I think, then her option subjects were small classes anyway.

We don’t set in my school apart from Maths and science. Many do though. It doesn’t stop the kids asking what set it is though!

It varies from school to school. It probably says on your school's website. They will not necessarily have sets for all subjects at GCSE - with options subjects there are not always enough students doing each subject to make setting worthwhile.

It does vary from school to school.

in general the older the students are the more likely the school is to set.

once they take GCSEs then some subjects if there is only one class running (eg Latin or photography or similar) all the children taking it will be in the same class.

maths is usually set fairly early and definitely by GCSEs. Science most schools offer double or triple and within double foundation or higher so that is usually set.

It isn't weird to have separate sets based on ability in PE. Different kids have different abilities. Its better for learning if students are taught with others of similar ability. Also, there's PE theory too, and even more so at GCSE & A Level stage.

PE is set by ability to protect students with additional needs from some super-competitive, (neurotypical?) kids. Sets from Y7 at my school (in PE).

It’s not weird when you think about it.

The kids who are very sporty can enjoy playing against the other sporty kids while the ones who aren’t sporty play with kids of a similar ability so they get to play the sport without worrying that the sporty ones will judge them for missing a pass or whatever.

DDs school was big so it was maths/science/english split.

Our local school doesnt set for any subjects until year 10 and then only maths and science. I think from looking at previous years progress 8 scores that this does benefit previous low and medium attainers but not the previous high attainers.

Ours sets in maths from year 7, in english and science from year 9. Everything else is taught together (but classes are small, so no issue).
They don’t set in PE, but the kids who choose it for GCSE are taught separately (and they tend to be the higher ability ones).

DD inYr10 is only set for Maths, science and English. In yr7 and 8 it was only Marhs (but they had Science, IT Nd French /Spanish in their Maths set) and then English in Yr9 which was also their class for humanities).

At GCSE none of the options have Sets, its just timetabling.

It depends on the school, but the information should be readily available. Around me it's a wide range from most subjects set from the beginning to no setting even through GCSE. All the different iterations have positives and negatives.

Lots of schools don't stream at all in years 7-9. From what I can make out, it is because the lower ability pupils are badly behaved, and they couldn't cope with them being all together.

Even in years 10-11 setting is limited. This is difficult because of higher ability pupils being in class with those who cannot read.

I'm not an expert in education but I have talked to a lot of teachers about this. I understand it as this: you can have classes of mixed ability, which means you might get a few kids in each class who disrupt because they are not able to engage for whatever reason. It's somewhat unfair on the kids who want to learn in the top sets.

Or you can split by set, and you end up with one or more classes that are basically unteachable due to the volume of kids who can't engage, which is hugely unfair on the struggling kids who want to learn and are in the bottom sets.

I imagine that Mumsnet is not representative of parents of kids who benefit from not setting.

Mixed ability teaching benefits all students but differently. It raises standards for low to mid attainers and cements social skills for the others.
I know that I will be shot down for this statement but the big standard comp at which I am a governor only sets in Maths, gets fantastic results and is 10x oversubscribed. It is down to the quality of teaching.

Usually sets are for Maths, English, Science and sometimes MFL.

They don’t tend to have them for everything in my experience. But my experience is obviously limited to my own children’s schools and what friends have told me re theirs.

my son’s school sets for PE half way through the first year, way before they do for any other subject. It enables the sporty kids to learn with the other sporty kids and the others to not be put off by the sportier kids. Makes perfect sense but not really sure why this doesn’t apply to all subjects.

"cements social skills for the others" ie the well behaved kids are used to monitor the behaviour of the not so well behaved. My DD was 1 of those ie high attainer + well behaved girl used to manage the learning and behaviour of lower attaining boys. Not good for her at all.

Dd goes to state comprehensive. They have sets for Math, English and PE from y7. Then sets are added for sciences, MFL, geography and history the following year.

You really can’t effectively teach lower ability kids alongside higher ability for long. My dd was accidentally bottom-setted in French in Y9 as they muddled her up with a girl with a very similar name. At first she refused to complain (or let me) because she said she’d just get re-setted at half term. But within 4 weeks she was begging me to contact her teacher - she was losing her mind with boredom and she said “it’s not fair on anyone because I’m replying to all the questions in class in full French sentences, and they are sitting in silence as they still haven’t figured out what the verb is. They won’t learn anything while I’m in their classroom.”

Ex teacher

Not politically correct but when we setted in maths there were two bottom sets in parallel - one for kids who usually had SN and worked very hard but really struggled academically and one for kids who had no SN but couldn’t behave.

both were very small and had a TA.

our top sets were very big to compensate for this but behaviour in top sets is generally good and it wasn’t too much of a problem.