Newly trained doctors-you need to know this

[2020Raquet]

DSS3 is about to be a newly qualified FY2 doctor along without about 8,000 from his cohort (number who qualified this year). There are about 1000 jobs for them to apply for in the NHS this year. So we, the tax payer have paid an average of £250,000 to £327,009 to train these doctors over the past 7-9 years and 87% will not have a job.

A simple google search (appreciate that not be the most accurate, so happy to be corrected if based on facts) show that 20,060 doctors immigrated to the U.K. in 2024.

DSS3 is emigrating because he has little other choice.

The doctors strikes are not based on money, but the fact that they come out of uni with £100’s of £1,000’s of debt in a job apparently vital in the U.K., but with no job prospects!!

AIBU to believe the system has failed.

If all you have written is true (not doubting you) then that’s BLOODY AWFUL 😣

Thank you for pointing this out. It’s so so scary. I also think Wes Streeting knows this. What is he doing about it ? No point increasing the number of medical school places if this is what happens at the end of F2.

More than doctors need to know.

From a patient point of view it's also terrifying because the standard of care (including ability to speak and understand UK English) is not good.

Sam eljamel also a reminder that foreign doctors can maim hundreds of people with no consequences whatsoever.

Yes it was also the same for nursing students this year. It was also the same in 1991 when I qualified there were too many of us for too few jobs. Bad NHS workforce planning, once again!

Yep, meanwhile we as a country employ thousands of doctors and nurses from abroad who have been trained abroad without the gold standard UK training that yes we as the taxpayer pick up the tab for and are effectively giving away to other countries. There can be language and cultural difficulties when employing medical staff from abroad too.It’s ludicrous. Why isn’t the government doing something about this it?

It’s not just doctors or maiming but the most vulnerable patients getting shockingly poor treatment and being put at risk by all levels of NHS staff when language and cultural differences are an issue- mental health, elderly, learning difficulties, disabilities ….

Yet you can’t complain or you’ll be accused of racism.

OP can you ask to change your title and put in patients as everybody needs to know this .

Absolutely. Plus the question of genuine qualifications arises. A lot of psychiatric nurses are being recruited in Nigeria, one of the most corrupt countries on earth.

Where there is still the death penalty for being gay and 93% do not accept homosexuals, where autistic people are seen as being possessed by evil and autism awareness is non existant….

Those with autism are far more likely to need psychiatric nurses.

When English is poor from any country there are also huge issues with understanding mental health, complexities and conditions like ND and yes safety. The people most vulnerable are being put the most at risk.

Are you not talking about slightly different things here ?

An FY2 doctor is still in training, headed to a training hospital.

The UK doctor shortage is for fully trained and done their specialty. GPs for example. A role that an FY2 can't apply for.

Should your data not be like for like ?

Or have I got that all wrong ?

He'd been living and working in the UK since 1987!

I'm sure there were many opportunities to see that he was shite at his job.

There is also the issue of brain draining from countries like Nigeria. Who treats their patients?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2024/feb/14/nhs-nurses-being-investigated-for-industrial-scale-qualifications

It’s terrifying and ludicrous that uk trained nurse students here can’t get jobs. The government inaction as regards this is putting patients at risk.

He worked for NHS Scotland so his dei status ensured no accountability

Yesterday I was treated by a private consultant, getting my veins done. This topic came up as he said he had had a junior doctor with him, in Birmingham, gaining experience. I asked what had gone wrong, why could our junior doctors not all get jobs. He told me it started in 2007, under Blair, they opened the door to foreign trained doctors. At the same time they increased medical school placements. He said there was no planning as to the problems this would cause, further down the line. He knew of one job in Birmingham where 8000 applied. He himself came from India. He is a very skilled doctor and an asset to the NHS, and I am sure he is right in what he stated.

Boris Johnson’s Health and Care worker visa has surely played a big part in this problem.

A quick google and you’ll find there are

8,000 doctor vacancies

yes there is a problem with newly qualified doctors and them getting employment- but you haven’t told the entire story OP. Would you care to enlighten everyone on the rest of the story?

i dont understand why this thread had descended into racism,
at a clinic yesterday everyone of these doctors was black,
they were doing their job, employed by the nhs
most of the doctors in my department are asian
why is that an issue. ?

Newly qualified doctors in the UK are struggling to find jobs due to
a shortage of specialty training posts, which has created a bottleneck in the system. This is caused by a combination of factors, including poor workforce planning, funding gaps, and a high number of graduates competing for a limited number of places. As a result, many are stuck in temporary roles or face unemployment after completing their foundation training.
Key reasons for job scarcity

• Insufficient training posts: The number of available specialty training posts has not kept pace with the number of medical graduates, leading to fierce competition.
• Poor workforce planning: A lack of strategic planning by successive governments has resulted in a shortfall of training places, stunting career progression.
• Funding issues: In certain areas, such as general practice, funding shortages and poor allocation of resources prevent the creation of sufficient doctor roles.
• High competition: For example, over 30,000 doctors competed for approximately 10,000 specialty training places in one year, a situation exacerbated by unsuccessful applicants reapplying in subsequent years.
• Rise of non-training roles: Many available positions are "locally employed doctor" roles that do not count toward career progression, or doctors are forced into temporary locum positions that are often hard to secure.
• Uncertainty in allocation: Some doctors are only informed of their placement weeks before they are due to start, adding stress and uncertainty to an already difficult situation.

It's absolutely ludicrous. I have read about this before.

There are over 10,000 doctors vacancies in uk as of November 25

its a disaster of underfunding and planning over the last 2 decades

And there you go- the racism accusations.

Worries about patient safety and care alongside a ludicrous system that is wasting tax payers money should not be shut down by racism accusations.

Maybe this is partly why there is a problem. It just can’t be explored. As a patient you absolutely can’t raise concerns and professionally you probably can’t either.

https://lowdownnhs.info/news/nhs-workforce-plans-in-chaos-amid-vacancies-and-unemployed-professionals/

this gives a more comprehensive idea of what is happening and
Chaos in resident doctor training Explains why OPs step son is looking to leave UK

the waste is paying locus due to piss poor planning which had end up in a bottle neck

Completely shocking as was the fact that the last time my parent went to see their cardiologist they couldn’t understand what they were saying (even more shocking when you know that my parent spent their working life teaching including being TEFL trained and teaching EFL for quite some time so they hardly find accents in general challenging.)
I have a good friend who worked as a consultant in a teaching hospital. While her child was in PICU her trust advertised her job, employed someone from overseas, who promptly announced that she was taking an extended trip back home before she started work and they then asked my friend to locum for her replacement until she returned from her extended holiday!