To be a bit worried about this report

[Plainspoken]

If you don't have time to read it, it basically says that we are becoming less democratic. The government and the media are increasingly owned by a smaller and smaller number of people. Things are getting more corrupt.

We've had democracy for long enough now that I think we've all become a bit complacent. Anyone else feeling uneasy? What should we do?

https://equalitytrust.org.uk/evidence-base/money-media-and-lords/#powerindex

I think it's call neo feudalism

Yes I agree.

Yes absolutely, but people aren't seeing it. We're sleepwalking into a thoroughly miserable future. This is where complacency gets us.

What a pile of absolute conspiracy theory nonsense. Learn some judgment OP.

Why do you think that?

Democracy has always been asymmetrical because of uneven distribution of wealth and power and the media has colluded in this. That’s been the case for decades if not centuries.

Its the decline of traditional media and the growth of online information, much of it owned or controlled by unaccountable overseas billionaires which is accelerating this at the moment.

Say what you like about the old press barons but at least they were regulated and there was competition within the sphere they operated in to provide a plurality of views.

Today most people get their news and information from sources owned or controlled by Elon Musk or Mark Zuckerberg. Give me the Daily Mail any day over the toxic AI slop which is relentlessly fed to us on X or Facebook.

To criticize that website.

1. It's only looking at 20 years of data. That's not a long time to look at trends.

1. It only looks at UK data. There is no comparison with what is happening in other countries.

1. It is not coming from an unbiased starting opinion. Capitalism= bad

1. It is remarkably against the House of Lords, a uniquely English phenomenon, and gives 1/3 of it's weighting to its influence. This means that you will never be able to use this in any meaningful way against any other country or comparator.

Surely 20 years of things getting worse is something to worry about? And surely it's bad if we become less democratic, irrespective of what other countries do? Also where do they say that capitalism is bad?

It’s not conspiracy theorising to worry about things happening in the U.K. that have already happened or are happening elsewhere in the world. For example, its a very bad thing to move to a completely cashless system. In China I believe the state can track miscreants through their phones and payments and cut them off.

Canada had a go at it too with the truckers.

Where do they say capitalism=bad

Where they start comparing it to native American systems. It's not a natural comparison, so you have to be coming from a prejudicial viewpoint to even be aware of it

20 years is not a long term trend. Yes, it might show that things are getting worse now, but it doesn't tell you what things were like before. Given that the data for everything they are measuring has a time series going back further, it strikes me as deliberately selecting a point where you don't have to show something counter to your argument. It's a very dodgy statistical method.

I'm sorry I'm really confused. Are you saying that one needs to be an anti-capitalist in order to be aware of other political systems?

How long would be long enough for things to be getting consistently worse before you'd want to intervene? Surely it's easier to act early, before things get too bad? Like with climate change etc.

How are you going to intervene here though? How can you change the rules for eligibility to the House of Lords? How are you going to change who owns e g. The Telegraph? It's not like climate change where a lot of people can each make small but cumulative differences.

Even Socrates knew democracy was flawed.

@Greggsit

I mean yes I agree that for the average citizen it is difficult. The recommendations in the report are mostly things that governments could do, not individuals. That's why I asked the question about what we should do. Maybe the best we can do is to raise awareness by having discussions like these? What do you think?

Also are you going to answer my questions above? 🙂

Are you proposing an alternative..?

Nope, I don’t feel the need. It’s just that you’re sounding like Chicken Licken about losing democracy, and I’m saying democracy isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and we’ve known that for centuries. So maybe the fear and scaremongering is a waste of your energy?

Do you remember when Microsoft went down for a day and most airports in the world stopped operating? Remember the chaos? Who wants to bet that this was Bill Gates pulling the plug, as a power move? Same recently with the Amazon online servers. Power move from Bezos? The world is rulled by the VERY few, but most of us get distracted by Kardashian-esque gossip to notice

It's hardly a conspiracy theory to suggest the a tiny minority of billionaires owning all the media is leading to an undemocratic society. You cant have a democracy unless the masses are "educated" in the sense that they have enough balanced information to make an informed decision who to vote for etc. If a small minority of self- serving people own the media, it is very easy to manipulate voters. We don't have a true democracy due to all the misinformation that is spread, often by social media. It's only going to get worse as wealth falls into the hands of an ever increasing minority who want to protect their own interests. Musk is an obvious example.

Look into the Fabian society. I’ve recently learned about it. A barrister called Steven Barrett says we are becoming less democratic. Steven on YouTube is an excellent resource.

YANBU. I agree and I'm worried too. Everything is corporate and controlled and I think k we're sleepwalking in to a very dystopian future.

The only power you have is in your vote. Meanwhile you could join mass protests/strikes. Look on social media for alternative reporting. Very worrying times for UK population.

The fundamental problem is this: the Left now largely believe that economic class is at best equally important to, at worst less important than virtually all other intersections of oppression. So there’s no viable left wing party you can vote for without also, for instance, promoting the idea that men in dresses are more oppressed than women. Which everyone understands to be a lie, so it becomes a litmus test for which politicians are prepared to lie to your face.
As Churchill pointed out, democracy is the absolute worst form of government apart from all the others that have been tried from time to time. But the Left are losing the argument and therefore necessarily becoming more authoritarian. So now we face a choice: vote right and face indirect anti-democracy through wealth accumulation or vote left and face direct anti-democracy through authoritarianism. Choose your poison.

So to clarify, it seems like you're saying that because democracy is flawed we should not concern ourselves with the possibility of it ending. Even though the alternatives may be far worse. Is that right or have I misunderstood.

It would be good if we could avoid ad hominem insults - I'm basing my concerns on academic research, not an acorn on the head.

It wasn’t intended as a personal insult, sorry. Just a metaphor regarding your language/energy (‘something to worry about, things are getting worse, should we act early?’), not you as a person.

IM very HO It’s always the best of times and the worst of times in a sense. Yes, it’s not good that a few incredibly wealthy people rule the narrative and easy to be jealous a small few are ultra rich. But what’s the full context to the very few factors looked at? Is the increase in the House of Lords due to population growth/boomer generation? The average age is 70ish. Or because there’s no agreed mechanism for peers to leave? Can we really draw the conclusion that increase in membership = demise of democracy? Media control by the top 3 conglomerates has increased, but has readership/consumption and critical thinking increased? Are people actually reading and engaging with the material or just scrolling by on endless computer-generated news feeds and 24 hour news cycles? The ultra rich are growing richer, but our definition of ultra rich shifts over time and many are pretty rich compared to 100 years ago. Is enough as good as a feast?

What’s happening towards the opposite persuasion? What are the ultra-rich doing that’s good with their money as well as what are they doing that’s bad? Many more people are snapping out of the ‘matrix’, questioning what they consume, taking personal responsibility for health, happiness and growth, new generations are arguably growing exponentially in emotional intelligence. Living standards are off the charts better than they were 100 years ago. Victorians would marvel at our washing machines and dishwashers. People have loads more autonomy than they used to.

And also, is democracy all it’s cracked up to be? Do we even have democracy? The way the toddlers in the House of Commons act does not at all represent how I want this country to do politics.

There’s a lot more questions to ask before being able to judge that the small number of factors the article weighs up = democracy failing = a problem = something to worry about.

Does it all need to dissolve into chaos to wake everyone up and create a better way, and would that really be a bad thing? Painful process probably yes, but bad outcome?

A few billionaires run the world already. Just look at how they don't pay tax, have started raiding the moon for profit and have survival bunkers. They've been playing an exotic game of human chess for the last 10 years or more and we've allowed it by not regulating the internet. More fool us.