to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

[newbluesofa]

Lots of chat on MN recently about taxes on high earners. So heard lots of 'we have this money because we work bloody hard for it' and honestly I'm sick of it and think the people who say it are selfish.

Nurses work incredibly hard, long shifts, difficult job. Carers provide absolutely essential service, again shift work, difficult hours, difficult job. Teachers provide essential work, I know multiple teachers and they all devote evenings, weekends, school holidays to the detriment of their own families. All of these jobs also have huge emotional tolls. So 'I've worked hard for my money' means nothing to me, because a lot of people work a lot harder for a lot less.

Much better than those low paid people bear the greatest burden of society than the ones that work hard!

This is the thing, people talk as if we live in a meritocracy and we don't

What's your definition of a meritocracy?

I think you think it means that if we both work as hard at different jobs we should be paid the same...

And that's really not what it means

I agree with you op!

I think the pandemic really showed us who are the essential workers and who are not.

Cleaners, emergency services, nurses, doctors, rubbish collectors, delivery drivers, supermarket staff, lorry drivers and many more.

The only thing I would say that as a small business owner, we take on a lot of risk when things go belly up. Also, that being on the other side of employing people after a lifetime of being employed, is quite an eye opener.

That they work hard! Which they might well do. It's only a competition if you're on the defensive and choose to make it one.

When was this utopian period you describe?

Couldn't agree more.
The people I feel sorry for a care workers who don't get paid for the time spent travelling between appointments and often get less than minimum wage as a result.

Not moaning twats making £100k + a year in a cushy office.

Quit your moaning and leave off the smashed avocadoes on sourdough if you have to pay out a bit more and remember you gave to do this because the Tory party you voted for made a total shambles of the country.

Completely agree. It's just good luck that I earn significantly more than others. It's certainly not because I work harder.

And for the record, not all high earners think they have some god given right to not pay tax or a higher share than others. I'd like it if we all focused on government waste and getting the national debt down more than this really divisive stuff that the media churn out all day every day.

Quite the reverse, in my observation. High earners and professionals are seen as having “cushy” employment.

I think my issue with all this 'I work hard for my money' is that it implies that the money is proportionate to the work, which is why people bring up teachers/ nurses/ miners/ whatever. Yeah, people aren't saying those professions don't work hard, but the 'I work hard for my money' can feel a bit like - 'the amount I earn is proportionate to the amount I work' - which suggests that the amount someone lower paid earns is also proportionate, and that's where I disagree. I think more often it's just that some jobs are paid better than others irrespective of the amount or difficulty of work involved.

And I don't know how much choice is involved in being in a lower paid job. I am aware that if I was a banker or a doctor or whatever I would earn loads more. But there was no way I could have done that, because we had nowhere to study, and just needed to get jobs as soon as we could so we could earn enough to get away from our parents.

In fairness I now work part time in a nice office job and DH earns enough to support that. But my brothers both work all hours in their jobs, and it can be dangerous and it's really high skilled too, to be good at it. But their pay is pretty average. They "chose" those jobs because they needed jobs, urgently - staying at school just wasn't an option. How could they have chosen to be bankers or lawyers or something instead? Or even starting their own businesses. Younger brother can't afford to save and has no family money to get him started. Maybe he will do get a loan or something to do that some day. But older brother had to work from he was about 14, and survive a lot of violence growing up, and just battle to keep himself on the rails his whole life. He's clever and incredibly hard working and very skilled. What choices could he have made to be a high earner? Why is he not a high earner? Nothing to do with hard work, I think.

Because that was the flavour of your post, maybe?

I agree. It drives me mad that people earning gazillions seem to think it's because they work hard when most of the time it's down to luck and contacts - or even just that they were born with a good brain and had a good education. That person out sweeping the streets in winter and doing a second job at weekends is probably working far harder than they are and barely making enough to make ends meet.

I don’t work hard at all and I earn a lot. It’s brilliant. But I worked bloody hard to get to this point and now I enjoy it thoroughly 🤗

Nothing has in taxation or relevant policy has changed since I had a child in 15 hours free childcare

My DH makes the big bucks. He's gone from absolutely nothing (when I met him) to a high income earner through the sheer power of hard work. With the recent promotion he's in the additional rate. More money to the government it seems.

Nurses and teachers are paid enough here. Start on around £30k I believe and as with most careers there's scope for progression. And let's not forget we all choose what career we go into. DH chose a career a finance director because he looked at his skills and knowledge (maths, economics, data) and decided to apply himself to where it would pay off.

Going part time or taking full maternity leave wasn’t an option if I wanted to continue to progress, it also factored into my decision to only have 1 child. I am available on-call 24/7. While I have a lot of flexibility in my working hours that goes both ways and if there’s something urgent happening then I am fully expected to work as many hours and as late into the night as is needed to deal with it. I am never completely unavailable even when on holiday or Ill, I was working from my hospital bed a few years ago while admitted for a severe gallbladder infection which ultimately ended up with emergency surgery.

All parents are entitled to 15 hours childcare. It’s the extra 15 hours that you lose.

thats 15 hours per week term time only.

we’re talking about what you lose as government benefit by earning over £100k, not what you pay out in childcare total.

Hard work can't alter a person's basic intelligence and aptitude though. The playing field isn't level in terms of what specific individuals can realistically expect to achieve.

Best comment I’ve read this week.

Get a grip op

Then why say it in the context of moaning about tax. Throughout this thread people are saying that the implication is that they work hardER.
I have paid higher rate tax for many years, as has my husband. We’re probably considered high earners by many so I have no skin in the game and am not making it a competition. The insinuation is clear to see.

Well I do think they're the real problem, but whenever a wealth tax is mentioned you hear 'well I worked hard for my money...'

Because it is relevant in the context of taxation!
If you're a high earner what are you arguing for? Did you never work hard?

No one works ‘hard enough’ to earn excessive salaries. It’s such a bullshit phrase and implies low earners don’t work hard.

But that’s just a load of bollocks isn’t it? No one who works is going to pay a wealth tax. Why don’t you ask them wtf they’re talking about something irrelevant rather than worrying about whether they think they work hard

Well this is awkward. I’ll ask again. When? Maybe explain to the PP who wants to know what you’re on about as well. They seem to be down a lot more than you think. Maybe I should post the graphs…You don’t actually understand the issue you’ve decided to challenge. Whoops.

Please post your graphs, I’d love to see them