to be fed up of hearing 'I've worked hard for my money'

[newbluesofa]

Lots of chat on MN recently about taxes on high earners. So heard lots of 'we have this money because we work bloody hard for it' and honestly I'm sick of it and think the people who say it are selfish.

Nurses work incredibly hard, long shifts, difficult job. Carers provide absolutely essential service, again shift work, difficult hours, difficult job. Teachers provide essential work, I know multiple teachers and they all devote evenings, weekends, school holidays to the detriment of their own families. All of these jobs also have huge emotional tolls. So 'I've worked hard for my money' means nothing to me, because a lot of people work a lot harder for a lot less.

Surely, yes?

My son is disabled, and it’s definitely not a privilege.

Of course we are. Just as a we know being white or male comes with privilege in this kind of context. I’m a high earner but I recognise my privilege, would I be where I am today if I wasn’t healthy, or if my children weren’t? I doubt it.

...did you just ask if it's a privilege to not be disabled?

I was wasting my time this whole thread talking to you, yikes

Because living like that is such a great life? Those people are messed up. No one enjoys living like that.

You know I was thinking that if a dog stops running for a ball or wanting to do anything, we don't say 'LAZY DOG!' We recognise there is something wrong with the dog, because dogs need and are built to run after balls. No human is happy bored and not achieving anything. More is going on.

I'm sorry about your son. I meant in the same way we say that Sunak is privileged to be born into a family that has already done well. The House of Commons says 25% of the UK population is disabled. Does that mean the remaining 75% is privileged?

Agree, it's a big complex issue. A family member used to work with people not in work, education, or training - before the funding for the project got cut of course! He saw how it's a culture thing, there are so many obstacles in the way and decades of cuts to youth services, education, the push towards degrees rather than technical training and apprenticeships, it all adds up to people struggling to overcome the barriers into work that many people face. We fix that by funding these kinds of things again and investing in giving people what they need to get into work.

It helps absolutely no one to just have the nasty attitude of 'oh those lazy poor people just want to live off my tax money'

Yes

Like I said, some are disadvantaged. You shouldn’t assume that others don’t have experience with being too ill to work or what that feels like just because we don’t share all.

I think that anyone insensitive enough to write something like 'trying is always an option' lacks something, to be honest

I think a lot of people don't get that there are lots of different types of privilege - they think it means having a pony growing up or something.

@newbluesofa PS I admire you for this thread. Sadly a lot of people just don't have emotional intelligence or the ability to put themselves in another's shoes, and they never will.

It's easy to work hard in those circumstances

The issue I have with MN is I always start off trying to genuinely engage with people and have a good faith discussion. People act as if they're incredibly knowledgeable on something so I will counter with points I've really thought about. But then the more it goes on the more I realise it's the Dunning–Kruger effect in action. And if I'd know that's the place they were coming from I would've approached the whole conversation differently.

I will try and say this without the inevitable disability rant.

Yes.

Able people are by nature privileged in comparison to disabled people, because they’re not disadvantaged by disability.

Your children, for example, were likely communicative by the time they were 9. Our son, isn’t. That is quite obviously a barrier.

Not having that barrier makes you, in comparison, privileged.

I do, I lack a negative 'I can't do' mindset.

That’s because you “can do.” If you couldn’t, mindset wouldn’t help you.

Good for you.

I agree. But I'd caveat it only for those who are physically and mentally healthy.

Whether it’s a great life or not, dh and I don’t enjoy paying for them!

So basically you discount and dismiss any effort or achievement by people who weren’t raised in disadvantaged circumstances ?

On the contrary, while I acknowledge that you work hard physically and that it is strenuous, when you have finished you take nothing home. Most "intellectual" jobs don't involve lifting anything heavier than a pen, but you take all the thought burden home and mull on it overnight and hope you go back to work with a better answer. I spent this morning clearing leaves, probably close to half a ton in weight, and cleaning out drains. At my house rather than paid labouring. But I can still think even though my body is tired so here I am replying to you.

I really wish I could leave this thread as it's exhausting 😅 But keep feeling as if there's more to say. Some people have pointed out that it was a very divisive OP which I admit, it came from a place on anger and deep frustration so i should've approached it better. However, I feel like the thing I'm addressing is the divisiveness.

As many people have pointed out here in better ways than I did, the problem with 'well I worked hard for my money' is that often it implies 'as opposed to poorer people who didn't work as hard' and/or 'and wealth is directly proportional to hard work'. Many people have posted here saying exactly those things.

THAT is divisive. The thing is even if you earn a really decent wage, you're still below the 1%, the real elite class of people who come from generational wealth, whose families have known each other and for generations. Yes some billionaires are self-made. But there is am entire upper class of people whose lives are so different to everyone else's, including you with your 100k salary. Those are the people we should be looking to. Those are the people whose wealth has grown exponentially over the last 20 years while the cost of living crisis has developed.

Anyone know that poem First They Came? If we don't look out for each other now, if you don't look out for the lower and middle earners now, they'll come for you next. Don't look down when assigning blame, look up. I bet those people who do choose to just live off benefits (I'm not naive, yes SOME people do do this) are costing far less money than the wealthy are dodging. Or taking from taxpayer money. Remember all that great PPE taxpayers paid private businesses for...

Exactly. With the disabled thing, 25% of the population is disabled. I have sympathy for them and they should receive help, especially those too disabled to work.

But since being not disabled is in the majority already is that really a privilege? I'd understand being born into a millionaire family as privilege as that is an advantage the minority don't have.

So even if you come from a low income background, work hard and become successful you're still privileged because you're not disabled?

🙄

I 'worked hard', got some of the top exam results in the country, went to a prestigious university. Believe me - it's a pretty smooth process for most people in those systems. Working hard is easy and satisfying if you are doing something you are suited to. I don't credit myself for working hard because I was in my element - it really wasn't difficult.