Shein/Temu tat-tax

[SheinIsShite]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c078j4kylz3o

Missed this in the budget yesterday with all the coverage of the changes to child caps and electric cars. But AIBU to think this is about time too? In fact, I'd argue it doesn't go far enough.

France is imposing a levy of 10 euros (capped at 50% of retail value) on these "fast fashion" items along with incentives to encourage buying second hand and repairing clothing. They are also banning advertising of these companies, and banning influencers from promoting their "Shein hauls" and similar.

https://esgnews.com/france-targets-ultra-fast-fashion-with-eco-tax-ad-ban-and-transparency-rules/

So it's a start.

I know that and you know that because we're looking at from an analytical position.

Now go out into a housing estate in a deprived area with high levels poverty and all attendant social issues.

Many people would rather Klarna new things from Shein/Temu than wear second-hand and there is a stigma attached to second-hand clothing because the meaning of the clothing goes beyond the object itself. Visibly second-hand clothing or people knowing/thinking you use charity shops signals hardship and is an outward manifestation of "being poor" and therefore inferior, struggling, dirty/unhygienic whereas new clothing indicates you're managing/coping. It's a visual representation that you are respectable, clean/tidy, and can be proud of yourself. It's also a means of exerting some control over a life that may sometimes be chaotic, difficult, and complex. The option of picking and choosing, the feeling of having nice new things (and the term nice is relative), these all have an emotional resonance. Consciously or not, it's an accessible form of dignity and control to have choice over your clothing.

As for credit on poor terms, fees don't bother them because you can always just bump the payments by deleting your card details or defaulting. Debt is just a fact of life and highly normalised. It's perfectly normal to delay paying this so you can pay that or to simply ignore the repayments on the grounds that debt collection agencies cannot take what they do not have. For people living in financially precarious positions, debt is a future problem so why worry about it here and now?

In what way is our discourse privileged when we are suggesting cheaper options?

Because that discourse fails to take into account the socio-cultural reasons why many people don't access those cheaper options.

This is addressing those reasons. We've all been educated on waste by now. Change must be forced.

You could also argue that it is even more privileged to buy things made by slaves and children when you and your children will never suffer that.

And not care about the environmental impact when the vast majority of it is produced in the West and felt in the majority world.

“Carried away with my righteousness?” and “fall in line with my privileged view” what are you on about?

I pointed out that these sites produce poor quality items and that Klarna (and the like) can lead people into debt. Those are undeniable facts. How is that righteous?

And tat sites are not the preserve of the poor and needy, far from it: there are bloggers, influencers etc. showing off their Shein hauls. My daughter’s (not poor) friends buy stacks of things there. This is not about people struggling and depending on these sites.

Ive never bought anything from Temu or Shein, or so I thought...

Theres a long running thread on here about these companies and castigating anyone buying from them, I dont have a view about the morality or otherwise, I just havent ordered anything from them. But in the thread, just like this one, theres lots of comments about how this stuff is throwaway, falls apart etc, to buy from charity shops to avoid it etc

I bought a nice cosy top from a charity shop the other week, I havent stopped wearing it, it was washes really nice. It has no label in the neck but on closer inspection theres a label on the side seam and its from Shein!!!

Its really good quality to be honest, I'll be wearing it for years to come

Yeah. Some stuff from Shein is crap but certainly not all of it. As much as it doesn’t suit people for this to be the case.

virtually everything we buy has been manufactured and shipped in from china or similar. why punish shein and temu only?

Very true. I bet most of the stuff in places like Poundland B&m and such is all the same stuff.

The £1 pack of pens or glue by the supermarkets checkout.

I’ve purchased solar auto watering system
from Temu £16, Amazon £60 local garden centre £100. All looked identical. Did I need them well no not really but it makes watering the plants I grow for food much faster and automatically while Im on holiday.

Amazon haul has temu/shien type products

I think it will need to be a gradual shift, and this seems very much like a step in the right direction.

It’s not just about price / money though. Some clothes from expensive retailers and shoddily made from cheap materials, but with a brand name slapped on and a hefty price tag.

It didn’t use to be this way. People used to buy quality and it would last. And there weren’t fast fashion options. My nan, born 1910s, had some beautiful clothes that she really took care of.

I’m in my 40s so I’ve never really got involved in the Shein/Temu stuff, but have seen some of it and it just seems so cheap and clearly won’t last.

Conversely, however, I have shopped in Primark for many years and have some jumpers etc that are still going strong many years later.

I also have very rudimentary sewing skills, but even those are enough for me to be able to extend the life of some items.

I see these tax changes as a small step in the right direction.

Until there’s an acknowledgement of why some people shop at Temu/Shein etc without just loftily waving it away as “buying tat”, there’s always going to be a problem.

Reading this thread, it’s very clear that some posters make zero effort to understand others.

Oh I understand it. It's called dopamine and shopping online can provide a hit. You get another hit when the parcel arrives. Still no excuse though. Those stupid 'influencers' with their so called 'hauls' are part of the problem.

Shein is on the verge of being banned in France for selling child sex dolls.

It goes the other way too. Some people aren't inclined to make any effort to understand the complex problems with this sort of shopping.
They want to buy things, so they do. No more thought goes into it than that.

Im not sure why posters keep wanging on about the need to understand the customers of these sites. Again, this is NOT about poor people who have no choice but to buy cheap. They are not Shein/Temu’s main customer base. As has been linked above, the average customer spends around $100 a month there on their ultra fast fashion and tat.
So what is there to understand? People like cheap stuff and don’t care where it comes from? Got it!

The problem with Shein, Temu and Ali Express is the sale of unsafe and illegal products, potential use of forced labor, exploitation of tax loopholes that allow them to ship in lots of stuff without paying import duties, deceptive commercial practices and bad environmental practices.
France is seeking to suspend their website due to illegal products, including a child sex doll.

So Britain and other countries are, quite rightly, seeking to sanction/ban/tax these companies for the reasons above.

What did low-income people do before SheIn etc.? Just not wear clothes?

See my previous posts about why SheIn isn't generally used by (or appealing to) low-income people.

Catalogues mostly and all the debt that goes with it.

On the estate that my family members lived on, there was someone who ran catalogues under her own name, Freeman's, Littlewoods, those sorts of catalogues. People could choose from the catalogue and order items. In return they'd leave their Child Benefit book with her with the chits pre-signed so she could collect it. She would do that every week until the debt was repaid. She had a massive line of credit because of the massive orders + massive repayments. That she was skimming off a percentage for "interest" was by-the-by. Her husband was also in the financial business and happy to lend money to members of the community in need of a loan on easy credit terms. No one needed to leave their Child Benefit book with him because he'd just break legs to ensure repayments. All money laundered through the social club where they were on the committee.

Oh, and for people with the biggest amounts of money owed, they'd kindly take over their bank accounts for them. Basically, you'd give them your banking stuff, they'd pay you an allowance each week and keep the rest to repay your debt.

Genuinely the weirdest "...and that's why I shop at SheIn" I've ever heard.

People are forgetting that one of the crucial flaws with Vinted and eBay is that you cannot try stuff on and return if it doesn’t fit/suit.

That brings back memories. My Nan used to be that lady haha. But also everyone had the provident lady at their doors. Do they still exist?

Strange how environmental policies never seem to be aimed at changing the behaviour/consumption of the rich, isn’t it?

"Poor people" just had less. They did not have this idea that they needed separate outfits for every night out and 12 pairs of pyjamas. Clothes were worn until they were worn out, not worn for a few times then chucked. Handed down. Going even further back, made from scratch.

Your average Shein customer who is spending £80 or more a month is not on the bones of their arse.