Why are hospitals in the UK so horrible when everyone will end up in one at some point?

[Pavementworrier]

Dehumanising conditions that wouldn't be allowed in prisons are fine for the sick and I don't understand why. We live in a democracy so you'd think there would be pressure to make them better as a priority. Is it because everyone prefers to live in denial until it's their turn?

I hope I manage to live the rest of my life without going to one and just drop down dead one day but this is statistically unlikely.

No, they don't. I have spent two long stays in our local hospital since 2022 and it was most certainly NOT "conditions that wouldn't be allowed in prisons".

I don't say it was perfect by any means but nowhere near as bad as your original post claims.

It is not true that the NHS is underfunded/we don't pay enough taxes compared with other countries. We fund the NHS on a par with other countries where the state health service works very well. The problems with the NHS are due to its being privatised by stealth and run by people who only care about profit and obscenely high wages for the inflated number of 'administrators', and not about providing a health care service to people who need it. To understand what's going on and what we need to bring the health service back to where we want it, watch the video by seasoned NHS campaigners, including a doctor, here https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2024/10/the-notional-health-service/. You have to scroll down to see the video. It is an eye opener.

I was a senior nurse in an intensive care in a big city. It was the most stressful period of my life. The stress came from understaffing and inappropriate staffing. Then as the “old guard” staff in the supporting roles began to retire they were replaced by people on the whole - not always, who didn’t have the training, will to carry out the job as it had become. So we end up with domestic staff and porters working to rule and the slack there is taken up by nursing and auxiliary staff. Everyone in every role in the hospital from ward manager down is stretched. There are many many shit staff who languish in the stability of an NHs job. In our unit we had 3 nurses going through disciplinary processes one due to excessive sickness two because they are bullies. That process when I left had at that point lasted 18 months. We had less staff for more patients. Bosses insisting we order cheaper materials. Colleagues who were burnt out and striking out at anyone who annoyed them.

that was 11 years ago. A recent reunion with two old colleagues shows it is infinitely worse and ready for collapse. They say that everyone
without exception comes through the door ready for confrontation - gone are the grateful relatives and friends. One said she has decided to work bank staff as she will earn 1:5 times her salary and can pick and choose her hours and place of work. She knows this is part of the problem but is done scrimping and working like a slave. She said they have no permanent domestic staff and the young girls who come on the unit do not understand the complexity of an ICU. The nurses and auxiliary then have cleaning duties on top of everything else. Add to that the increase in record keeping
due to our litigious society and its horrible for staff.
As a service user. I’ve had too many A&E visits in the last year for my liking and it’s horrific waiting endless hours to be seen and then my mother being nursed in a trolly on a corridor along with other unattended elderly folk. It’s third world standards.

im really worried what it will be like when I’m that age. I would be happy to see a complete overhaul from managers down. Before the whole thing implodes dramatically.

My DH was in hospital recently for 3 weeks - it wasn't horrible. He had good food, kind and efficient staff and great medical treatment. I think we only hear about the horrible experiences and not the millions of people who are treated well.

I do need dignity and privacy, yes
You are of course free to pay for high level of dignity and privacy.

You need or prefer? If there is clinical need there are side rooms and for planned surgery you may be able to request one for a fee, if they are not otherwise in use. But you won’t necessarily get better care or one to one nursing. If an emergency admission or very ill often the patient really is in no position to express a choice.

This. If we want good qualities services for all eg NHS and education, then it needs to be paid for.

One said she has decided to work bank staff as she will earn 1:5 times her salary and can pick and choose her hours and place of work

Our trust has put a stop to Bank Staff in a bid to save money.

How often do you walk through A&E?
How many wards to you go onto on a daily basis?

I would gladly pay more tax for efficient, caring and fit for purpose health, education and social care services, but only when they stop being profligate with the money they do have, wasting it on out of date and useless technology and highly paid, but not needed, administrators.

Even the Nuffield has crap mattresses. I was in there this year and I made the bed up to be flat rather than sitting up.
The mattress has been in the sitting position for so long there was a big permanent dent in it so lying flat was bumpy and lumpy at best.
And of course, plastic!

1.People are living too long due to leaps in medicine.

1. Too many choose a shit lifestyle
2. NHS squanders our money

Just 3 off the top of my head

Thank you. I'm kind of glad they're just as bad in private! I guess it's a hygeine thing. I hope you're much better now!

@BillieWiper yes thank you.
In private rooms I can reassure you there are still people snoring nearby, the bins are still emptied noisily outside your window, the sandwiches are processed and a bit curly. It's not like a 5star hotel.

Well I'm sure some private places are but I've been in Circle and Nuffield a lot the last two years and the main benefit is your own toilet! They are also hot like NHS wards!

Because many in the UK do not want to pay higher taxes. Look at the fuss over the budget.

My DF was in hospital in Barcelona. Modern, clean, huge, own room etc etc. Fantastic care and treatment.

Generally Spanish people pay higher taxes.

I’m pleased that you got the fast, prompt care and treatment that you needed. However, it’s certainly not the same in every hospital and it’s so often the emergency treatment that fails terribly.

I sat on a hard chair in an A&E corridor, outside the toilets for 8 hours with a drip in my arm trying to bring my high calcium down, whilst they waited to get me on the ward. I was knocked often, cold and even had the pleasure of my shoes being covered in vomit by the alcoholic who was chained to a policeman sat on a chair next to me. I do all I can to make sure that I NEVER have to go in again.

I spend a lot of time at GOSH and at our local hospital due to my daughter's chronic illness.

It's always brilliant and I'm so grateful for the NHS.

She has just had a two day stay at GOSH for a couple of procedures and they looked after her so well.

I also wonder why people often come out in a worse condition than when they went in. By that I mean, they may have had the condition they went in with cured or stabilised but there is no effort, in the case of older people, to keep them stimulated or mobilised. So by the time they are ready for discharge they have lost the mobility that they had and are often confused due to staring at the walls during their stay.
BIL was in hospital and tried to get some exercise. He was told off and wasn't allowed to leave the ward. As a result, his underlying long term medical condition had worsened after a hospital stay even though they'd cured the acute issue he went in with.
My DM was left to rot in bed/a chair all day as noone helped her up to get some exercise on her zimmer frame. Consequently she lost the ability to walk - not as a result of the condition she went in with.
Our main hospital has no tvs (paid for or otherwise) and no day room in the ward my adult DD was on. Poor old lady sat opposite her for 14 hours a day in a chair with nothing to do. She enjoyed chatting to me and did have an occasional visitor but other than that she was bored senseless. It's institutional neglect.

My hospital is fine! I was there last weekend on a Saturday night. Ambulance arrived in 5 minutes. Waiting room normal, everything working well, doctors and nurses brilliant. I think there’s a lot of scaremongering online.

I am afraid nothing has changed from the 80s. I used to work for the NHS and I dread when I become old and ill. The whole NHS needs a big change but I cannot see how this present government can achieve it.

My local hospital was rebuilt under the PFI initiative and opened around 23 years ago. It looks very nice and modern but is much smaller than the old hospital and the town itself has grown hugely in that time.

Many of the problems with it aren’t due to the building, it’s the staff. Three of my elderly relatives died pretty horrific deaths there, one was dropped by staff moving her into a chair, one was exposed to MRSA due to poor infection control and she eventually died of more or less neglect, I witnessed meals being left out of the reach of patients, medication being missed or given incorrectly, buzzers being ignored for ages until patients wet their beds. The list goes on.

I’ve been to outpatient appointments with my mum and she’s had procedures done to her with no communication whatsoever from the staff. At a recent one she was semi naked on a bed with multiple staff traipsing in and out whilst leaving the door wide open for the entire waiting room to see straight in.

None of that can be fixed no matter how much money gets thrown at the NHS. It’s the culture of indifference and incompetence that’s the problem where I live.

In fairness we do already pay.

Anyone prepared to pay more gets absolutely hammered cost wise though in the UK, there's no in-between.

My life was recently saved by the NHS and I have had an efficient, effective and caring service by the whole team at my local hospital, despite the stress they were obviously under and the crumbling building. Waiting times are actually going down. There's hope. It's not dead in the water yet.

However, people with the means aren't willing to pay tax. As soon as the budget came out you had people moaning about how their budget is so awfully tight once they'd paid private school fees and their massive mortgages.

Assuming you mean NHS hospitals, it's not about healthcare or decent survival rates, it's the mere fact that it exists. It's a bit like a religion at this point. You can't criticise it.

You're right, OP. Healthcare standards are through the floor- there are people starving to death in NHS hospitals for lack of care. My experience having a baby was a massive eye-opener. I think to answer your question, it's because people aren't very good at imagining a future version of themselves.

My advice to anyone would be that in hospital you basically need a family member or friend's support every day and ideally for multiple hours a day. Don't take what HCPs say as gospel- be ready to challenge them if it doesn't make sense because it will often just be wrong. Be the PITA patient, don't be compliant and sweet. You're basically in a hostile environment and need to behave as such.

This is not the fault of the HCPs but the system that makes it impossible for them to do their jobs.