(TW : discussion of Ruth Perry's suicide) To feel uncomfortable with the way Ruth Perry's death was described as 'the fault' of Ofsted?

[Carla786]

From the evidence, it's clear that the Ofsted inspector behaved abominably and the whole organisation needs a thorough overhaul.

However, I was reading a recent thread on the Caroline Flack documentary and for all the differences, one thing that reporting of Flack's suicide has shared is that it has often explicitly laid blame for a suicide on someone else.

In Flack's case, the media have been blamed for her suicide. In Perry's case, the inquest explicitly blamed Ofsted, as did some media.

This makes me uncomfortable...maybe it's wrong of me to feel this way, but I think of the GC threads that originally drew me to MN. Threads on the reporting of suicides of trans teenagers often rightly pointed out the danger of media implying that external people/forces caused a suicide, noting that it contradicts guidelines that the Samaritans (among others) have for good reason.

Perry was an adult, but these guidelines aren't just for teenagers. I don't want to downplay the terrible way she was treated by Ofsted. But I just feel very uncomfortable about the implications of media and then the official inquest explicitly implicating Ofsted in her suicide.

Am I wrong to feel uncomfortable about this?

This may be an unpopular viewpoint but...

Half the problem is that the vast majority of headteachers have only ever been teachers. Went to school, went to college, got a PCGE, became a teacher, became a Head (maybe with a few other steps along the way!)

I went into teaching late - in my 40's, after a very successful (and stressful) career at senior UK level retail.

I was never ever stressed out by Ofsted. Not once did I have an issue them coming in, being observed, being critiqued etc. I actually wiped the floor with one particular obnoxious Ofsted man when he said he would have given me Outstanding except for x, y, z - well, what would YOU have done diffferently,..he didn't know. Absolute prat.

The point I'm making, because they haven't worked anywhere else, they place a lot of importance on these visits internally. Not saying they're not important, but if you're doing your job probably, anyone should be able to walk in at ANY TIME UNANNOUNCED and you'd pass with flying colours. They are not a life and death decider for anyone , or they shouldn't be.

There's a lot of Head teachers who have amazing skills with children and teaching but are way out of their depth in management positions - and the training in schools is frankly shite.

So no , I don't think ofsted should be to blame 100%. Do I believe they're a waste of space though - absolutely! Just let teachers teach. Maybe let managers manage?

I’m not familiar with this story but have spent a lot of time thinking about suicide since H died by suicide years ago now. I spent an awful lot of time feeling guilty and sorting through observations of his close relationships and things I felt weren’t right within them and could have contributed to his state of mind.

But ultimately suicide is an individual choice and is based on very dodgy thinking about oneself and dodgy attachments to the wrong things in life.
eg if you feel your sense of worth, purpose etc is attached to your job, house, family, friends etc, you’ll feel horrendous when you lose those things.

If you’re strong in your sense of self as worthy in your own right, just for existing, or if you grow through losses to build that strong sense of self, you won’t take your life.

So IMO there’s always much deeper fundamental reasons or hiccups in emotional development (probably usually in early childhood, outside of conscious awareness) that form the foundation for suicide or an inability to grow through loss later in life.

If the word being used was “caused” I’d agree with you, but the coroner said “contributed to” and that would appear to be correct.

Being a headteacher is a particularly intense job. If you lose your job or feel you have to resign after a bad ofsted then it's not like you can then go into another headship. Or just walk into another job that pays the same amount. You might have a mortgage to pay and other financial commitments.
Also there is the affect on the staff at the school, the numbers of parents who pick the school as their first choice which has a huge affect on funding and whether the school is now looking at huge upheaval. So a huge feeling of responsibility.

In so many other jobs people just fail upwards but a bad ofsted can literally ruin someone's whole life.

If the inspector had been more reasonable (and I don't mean ignoring the failings, but being more humane). If she had been able to seek appropriate support. If she had been able to tell her friends and family. If she didn't have to worry about the impact of a single grade on the school community, including the prices of their houses....would it still have happened? The conclusion is that it may not.

Giraffe - I haven’t said ‘It wasn’t a factor.’

Let me put it another way. My brother killed himself nearly thirty years ago now because his girlfriend ended their relationship. That relationship ending was obviously a factor but that doesn’t mean people shouldn’t end relationships because someone might take their life.

It does mean that people should be kind and respectful in how they do that; it means that ideally people should be on the look out for signs of poor mental health in others (though it’s not easy) and I do agree with you that RP should have been able to share her worries and fears although whether she would or not can’t be known.

OFSTED have changed the system now and I’m not actually convinced at all it is any better!

I think that’s a fair summary.

From what I've read, the safeguarding mistake she made was a minor administrative error? And there were other things that were unfair : blaming her for kids in the playground doing the flossing dance from Fortnite, for one.

What did also make me uncomfortable was that some schools then refused Ofsted entry in protest. Yes, the system is severely flawed and harming teachers. But is preventing inspections in the meantime the right thing..?

It is unreasonable to attribute suicide to "other" people or organisations. It is solely the responsibility of the individual, and a choice they make for themselves.

But it did contribute.

Saying something 'contributed' to a death is quite different to saying that it 'caused' a death.

The way she was treated by Ofsted was a contributing factor in her suicide i.e. if they'd treated her better she'd likely still be alive.

Exactly.

And it needs to be acknowledged that it contributed to her suicide because otherwise there wouldn't be a Prevention of Future Deaths report that forces change.

I just look at it like this: If the OFSTED inspectors hadn't been so over the top, she would probably not have killed herself.

They need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask what purpose they serve. Then go about doing that without the bullying.

The job wasn't what made her feel suicidal though. It was the inspection. They unfairly graded her when it seems there was no real problem.

It’s not OFSTEDs fault that their ratings affect house prices. They have to make an honest judgement within the framework they are given. While I agree that some of that needs rethinking, and I can believe they don’t always make the correct judgment, the system is what it is. Headteachers know that when they take on the role and accept the salary. It is a high pressure job but like I said, it’s not that hard to avoid a rating of inadequate, especially when it comes to safeguarding paperwork.

@Carla786 the correct checks on staff weren’t being carried out.

This did happen to me once, though from the other side. I taught for four weeks in a school; all fine. One Monday evening got a phone call saying my DBS and references hadn’t been completed! This was end of January and I was offered the job in October. I could literally have been anyone; could have just been released from prison for sex offences against young people; violence, fraud. Absolutely appalling safeguarding and they SHOULD have failed their OFSTED and been dismissed quite honestly!

I'm really sorry about your brother.

I agree the new Ofsted system looks terrible, but the ability of heads to discuss the outcome and not have to keep it secret is a positive change. Lack of headline grade should have been a positive change, I'm not sure how the report card is going to pan out in terms of affecting house prices. I know one school that lost its outstanding to good and is now in the shit in terms of pupil numbers and are having to lay off staff. There shouldn't be such a distortion of everything around a school having that grade.

As a childminder who was downgraded to requires improvement due to the most horrific inspection I'd encountered in over 10 inspections I can fully understand why that poor woman did what she did.
It could have been me. If it hadn't have been the immediate support I received from my family, friends and all my lovely children's families it could be a different story.
The feeling it gives you of failure (due to no fault of your own) is very, very difficult to come through. I consider myself very lucky. I will never get over fully the way I was treated and until you experience it yourself you can't understand it.

Yes, but now they've changed it so safeguarding is separate.

They also changed it so that safeguarding issues that can be rectified quickly could have their grade rectified quickly.

I was following the story at the time and I think one head considered not letting them in before actually then doing so. The strength of feeling amongst people in education was huge though because of people's experiences with ofsted.

A popular education podcaster started a spreadsheet of "ofsted horror stories" and it was truly horrendous reading.

There was also the wording of the report they released, which was quite offensive and mentioned her death as basically a staffing change.

I'm not sure the new changes are any better but I really hope the culture of the organisation has somewhat changed.

Ofsted has failed its own inspections several times.

Why should schools, teachers, heads and SLT be subjected to an inspection by a group that has not been able to pass its own inspections?

And lets not forget that Ofsted has changed a lot since its original conception.

Originally HMI inspectors inspected the schools which they then guided to resolve any issues.

Since then it has been a political device to force schools in to compliance and lets not forget at points force them in to becoming parts of academy chains.

Its a system where being good enough (satisfactory) at your job wasn't good enough so they changed it to requires improvement.

At one point it caused so much stress in the teaching community that it was not aloud to give out individual grades to teachers.

Remembering as well that at times teachers have been judged on hoe "engaged" the pupils are and that they are all making "sufficient progress" judged by someone that doesn't know the class or the pupils.

And lets not forget that at one point 'the majority of schools were to be above average' (paraphrased)

Yes schools should be held accountable, but on things that they can actually control, not the rest of the BS that OFSTED puts forward to justify its own existence.

“the shame”

^ this is the underlying cause. The attachment of what has happened / the situation / job / reputation etc to one’s sense of self.

But it's not just 'shame', it's genuine, real world consequences which can be severe, for people other than yourself.

I taught for several years in a well known south Central London private school. In my exit interview I told the head my mental health was being ruined by the job. I jad regular suicidal thoughts because of the appalling workload and stress.

I wonder how many of the entirled middle class pushy parents some if whom post their drivel on here, have added to the mental burden that collectively has driven teachers, head and otherwise, to despair.

This article by Sarah Ditum helps articulate what makes me uneasy.

She notes that following the suicide of trans teenager Leelah Alcorn, media reports implied that parents' treatment was a big factor in the suicide.

She notes the other Samaritans' guidelines were disregarded in the reporting, and the effect of media reports on people who may also be in a similar position of considering taking their lives.

https://www.newstatesman.com/uncategorized/2015/01/if-you-believe-trans-lives-matter-dont-share-leelah-alcorns-suicide-note-social

The media has not been as bad in Ruth Perry's case as in Leelah Alcorn's. But I still think the way they reported is dangerous.

This disgusting @Carla786 are you the prolific Caroline flack supporter?
in what way are you comparing a woman who invited the press and media into her life, who assaulted someone, with a teacher who had an enforced regulatory body visit who were bullying and aggressive?