To be annoyed pensioners effectively now get a bigger personal allowance

[FlightBeforeXmas]

So because of the fiscal drag from not increasing personal allowances the chancellor has announced basic state pension will not be taxable.
So if you earn this amount you pay tax on it despite having the extra costs of working.
Pensioners are also much more like to own their homes.
How on earth does this make any sense?

Yes definately

And then older people dont seem to acknowledge the unfairness in a lot of cases, and you often hear people suggesting that if young people just worked a bit harder or didn't take a holiday/ buy coffees they'd be able to afford a house. When its clearly due to the fact that property prices have risen out of all proportion to wages.

Yes and no to this. I know this is not going to be popular, but I think there is a grain of truth in this.
They key to buying a house is getting a decent deposit and there is no doubt that young families now spend a heck of a lot more on what my generation (50+) would class as unnecessary.
I'm not talking about the odd cup of coffee or the famous avocado, but day-in, day-out spending that past generations just didn't do. Off the top of my head, eating out, takeaways, 'experiences', activities, dressing-up, new toys, more exotic food, newer cars (I walked past a nursery recently in a pretty rundown part of town, and I couldn't believe the size of the cars parked outside, all max 2 years old), home furnishings, soft play, using heating more (I didn't even know heating overnight was a thing until the energy crisis), holidays, short breaks, days out .... the list goes on. All of which - if MN is to be believed anyway - are considered pretty much standard lifestyle now.
So while I would never say that ditching takeaway coffee is the simple route to saving thousands, the cost of lifestyle creep does add up.
Now I know I will get some flack for this, but I do think expectations are so much higher now and, while all of these things were available 20-30 years ago, they were not as commonplace or expected as they are now.

And to be fair, taking holidays and then moaning because you can't afford to save up to buy a house is a bit rich!

For countries with which we have a reciprocal agreement, each country pays a pension in proportion to the number of years worked, ie paid into their system, there.

So if half your working life was in Spain and half in UK, you would get half your pension from Spain and half from Britain. You don't get two whole pensions.

I know someone whose pension is made up of part Spanish, part British, part German and part Swedish. There is a lot of admin.

Where I live the number of resteraunts and cafes has probably trebled since the 1980s. In those days you had Berni Inn, Wimpy and that was about it. And the only food you could get in a pub was a pickled egg.

Also my parents lived with my granny even after their first 2 children were born and that was considered perfectly normal.

My SP is just over £15k a year and I also have a little income from some savings which will preclude me from getting my pension tax free when the new rules come in to play. However, I think it's fair I should pay tax as we all need to share the burden. HMRC usually write to let me know how much I owe each year as they have no way of deducting it at source (so I pay it online) but I've yet to hear how much it will be for last year - I've usually had the letter by October.

Sorry im not sure what you're saying here. Of course it has to do with young people. It's of interest to anyone who pays tax. I assume you dont mean that young people just dont matter? That would be nuts.

I don’t mean that at all. Did you even bother to read my post? A few pensioners failing to pay £58 a year isn’t even a rounding error. It’s of no interest to anyone because it has no impact. It’s certainly not going to help anyone lay their hands on a house deposit. You’ve just leapt on the generational injustice bandwagon without thinking about it.

Across many different subjects, not just this current tax one, there is definitely a level of disdain and vitriol towards the older generation.

It really perplexes me. I am early 50’s now - at no point in my teens, 20’s, 30’s or 40’s have I ever had any negative thoughts towards those older than me.

Currently, the slur de jour is to throw around the “boomer” term, but pretty soon they’re going to need to think of a new one to malign Gen X.

I would say it DOES matter. Not because of the amount but because of the principle of one group only because of their age not being charged in the same way. We already have other benefits that are solely because of older age. It doesnt seem to work the other way. In fact there is actually a lower minimum wage for those under 21. People are talking about youngsters having 'disdsjn' for pensioners. Do you think rules like this help?

The way people hate on pensioners on MN is absolutely insane to me.

Don't hate the players. Hate the game.

You're all (including me hopefully), are going to be pensioners in the not too distant future.

My mum is 78 and thank god my dad died when she was mid 50's as it was a horribly abusive relationship. He left nowt and stopped her working. She remarried in her 60s and unfortunately, her lovely 2nd husband died and she was left with nowt but her little pension.

She thankfully can afford a rented terrace in a deprived area. We aren't bothered she can leave us nothing. Just glad she can afford to live with hers and her spouses pension, plus state pension.

This is the same for many working class OAP's

I'm so glad old people who don't need to live in care homes can do this.

Please tell me how this is wrong

Did you get upset about older people being denied access to ventilators during COVID or hospitals being cleared to make way for younger people by discharging infected older people into care homes?

Sometimes we have to be pragmatic and taxing all those pensioners would probably cost more than it raises, should you have to pay more tax to cover that?

Why do pensioners getting a tax break have nothing to do with anyone else? It has EVERYTHING to do with everyone else! Why should pensioners get a tax break not available to others on a small income? What’s fair about that?

The state pension is classed as a benefit. Logically, if it can be taxed, then all benefit income over the threshold could be treated the same.

The earlier discussion was about the unfairness of a pensioner receiving the same amount in state & private pensions who pays tax on their income, as someone with only the state pension who doesn’t. Another ill thought idea by those running the country.

Well yes I did get upset about those things. Of course I did. Elderly people are humans just like younger people are. Your assumption that I wouldn't care makes no.sense when my whole argument is about fairness and people being treated equally.

what a pointless comment.
You seem totally unable to see the big picture.
"fairness" is not saddling the entire UK population with an admin cost to collect up to £58 per year in tax by having to process the tax position of every state pensioner at a cost per head considerably above £58

There are dozens of instances where the benefits system is unfair. For example, why should someone be paid for having more than 2 children? Family sizes should be governed by what you can afford, not what you can produce.

Yes - the only time you “ate out” was the seaside cafe on holiday, or a knickerbocker glory in the department store in town as a real treat bribe when shopping. I also was born when my parents were living with my grandparents - it was very much the norm. My family never had a car, or a phone. Having said that - lots of my dcs friends (all in 30’s) have bought houses locally. We live in the affluent SE. They buy fixer uppers and typically do up one small dump and upgrade to a bigger dump that becomes a nice family home. Many of the boys went into trades, so everyone has a friend who is a plumber, tiler, builder, electrician… they do mates rates for each other. None of them come from wealthy families and they simply didn’t go out much for years while saving. It’s hard but possible- as long as you live outside London and are willing to start out in a property that needs a lot doing.

I think one thing that has changed in the past few years is the expectation that a family in the throes of bringing up children 'deserve' the same standard of living as (usually) their parents and resentment that they haven't got it.
But it was ever thus.
My FIL has just died and we will be able to pay off our mortgage with what he has left us (not a fortune, but more than £100k). That means that any inheritance I get will just go into savings, to join the lump sums my DH got from his pension and redundancy. None of these were a lot individually (all less than £15k) but together they add up. With no mortgage, we will be able to add to our savings.
We hope to gift our children deposits for their first homes of around £50k in time.
HOWEVER - 20 years ago, we could never imagine being in this position. Back then, we were scrimping from one payday to the next.
It just creeps up on you, but the point is, a family in the throes of their most expensive years has not been better off than the older generation for a few years now. It's just the way things are, but the spite and entitlement is a new thing.
I know posters will be along to state with certainty that there will be no state pension when they retire at 100 and in the same breath will say no Government dares to tackle pensioners.
Just bide your time - the way 'boomers' have.

a family in the throes of their most expensive years has not been better off than the older generation for a few years now.

It was ever thus. It was certainly true 50 years ago.

The truth is OP, it doesn’t make any sense and it just going to make things worse and worse. Yes, pensioners need money to live, especially those who rely solely on the state pension. However, who’s paying the state pension? It’s the current workers. There isn’t a ‘pot of money’, it’s basically a Ponzi scheme and we all know that once money stops flowing into them, they collapse. So, whilst this sounds great, unless the people paying in now have the wage increases they not only deserve but need, the Ponzi scheme can’t carry on 🤷‍♀️

If that's true then why have we old been sold the lie of the poor pensioners? Why do they need the free bus passes/ prescriptions/ TV license/ triple lock etc? Oh because it WASNT true in the old days. But it is now.

Does anyone truly think that a maximum state pension of £12,547.60 per year is a decent amount to live on? As someone said upthread, don't hate the players, hate the game. And has also been explained, the odd £58 over the tax free threshold is just not worth collecting as it would cost more to do so - this only applies to those pensioners without any other source of income. I'm saddened people fall for rage bait headlines which feed into the intergenerational hate I see.

Exactly!

Not all pensioners are living rent / mortgage free either. My friend (a widow) only has the state pension of £12,500 per year.

She lives in a private rental (which is not great) and pays £740 per month rent.

Her food, utilities, TV license, clothes etc all cost the same as everyone else in society - yet she’s managing all this (plus rent) on £12,500 per year.

To those who begrudge her a free bus pass and a £58 per year tax leeway I say … really???

It WAS true because, once the expensive years are over, people earn more and start to save money that was previously eaten up in day to day living. I was a higher rate tax payer for over 20 years but I hadn’t got a pot to piss in 50 years ago - what a difference five decades makes.

Poor pensioners, eg those attempting to live on a state pension need the things you mention (free TV licences were axed years ago), wealthier ones don’t. However, look what furore there was over means testing the WFA, political point scoring will always prevent any government from creating another pensioner means test.

Your friend should contact her local Age UK and get a benefits check. Unless she has a large amount of savings, she should be getting help with her rent and council tax. As she is over state pension age she could also be eligible for older people’s housing via a social landlord.

Someone receiving the full state pension cannot claim carers allowance. Someone receiving the state pension can't make a new claim for PIP (oddly a previous PIP would continue, which does seem unfair). So there are benefits which are only available to working age people & not pensioners.