Page 11 | To be annoyed pensioners effectively now get a bigger personal allowance

caringcarer · 27/11/2025 00:27

LakieLady · 26/11/2025 14:23

I suspect this may simply be because the amount of tax that it would generate would be less than the cost of setting up the deduction from the SRP, or introducing some sort of negative tax code on any private pensions or other income.

The basic state pension may not even be over the personal allowance, iirc it was forecast at £12,420-something for next year, so the gains would be small.

I'm not altogether clear on what they mean by "basic state pension". I get a small addition to my state pension because I'm in the age group that paid into SERPS, which was intended to guarantee a bigger pension for those who didn't have occupational pension schemes. It's only £6 or £7 a week, so the tax wouldn't be significant, but I'd like to know if that addition would be regarded as part of the "basic" pension, or if I'd have to pay tax on it.

I'll still only be a few quid better off after working for 53 years than my MIL who only worked a few years in her entire life, and gets pension credit, housing benefit and 100% reduction in her council tax.

This is the exact problem. People who never worked their entire lives get gifted pension credit and it's a gateway benefit so those people can claim council tax discounts, free dentistry, wfa to name a few perks. People who get full new state pension standard allowance are actually worse off after perks taken into account, it's scandalous.

Woollyguru · 27/11/2025 00:33

ByQuaintAzureWasp · 26/11/2025 16:07

The difference is that pensioners can't earn more than their state pension [other than private pension income which they do pay tax on].

Pensioners can work if they want to and are able to. The compulsory retirement age has been abolished.

caringcarer · 27/11/2025 00:43

Saz12 · 26/11/2025 20:13

@LondonLass61 It's not agist to say that we as a society can't afford to pay pensions for 30 plus years to the average person. When the post-war generation pensions were set, I dont imagine we thought so many folk would be retired for 30 years - more likely expectation was retire at 65, die at 70. Now, we retire at 67 but die at 87 (hopefully!) - still 30 years of retirement. But the immediate post-wsr years have people able to retire in their 50's, drawing final salary pension schemes from the public sector relatively young, and could well live into their 90's. Obviously they have a right to those pensions, but the state pension is inadequate for some and unnecessary for others - which just seems ludicrous situation.

Did you study maths at school? On your numbers people are in retirement for 20 years not 80 and most people do not live to 87 either, so it would be less than 20 years.

ledmeup · 27/11/2025 03:52

CheeseIsMyIdol · 27/11/2025 00:20

It’s not a matter of being “harder.”

It’s a matter of young people now having lifestyle expectations that are off the charts compared to how people led their daily lives 40-50 years ago.

30-somethings today think it’s their right to live like established 60-somethings who have 45+ years in the workforce.

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It is harder though, much harder.

So much ageism against younger generations

EternalPringle · 27/11/2025 07:33

It is so silly to condemn different generations. People are born when they are born and this is something we have no control over! Have I been born earlier, I would have been a boomer, had I been born later, I would have been a millennial. I find it very weird to castigate any generation, who are simply a product of their time. Same people, different ages.

HeadNorth · 27/11/2025 07:46

Any government is terrified to touch pensioners after the right wing media lost their shit over means testing WFA. The triple lock means pensioner are guaranteed income increases workers haven't had in years - but pensioners are untouchable, so tax tax tax the workers.

qqwwkkssvvg · 27/11/2025 08:06

AlteFrau · 26/11/2025 14:29

Arguably, pensioners have no way of increasing their income. Even those of us who are relatively young and healthy don't have as much energy. Nor are employers queuing up to offer us work. Poorer circulation may mean we need a bit more heat. State Retirement Pension is pretty low and women who did part-time and or low paid work will have lower provision in terms of private pensions.

Worth remembering that we will all get old one dy. Unless we are specially unlucky.

All the more reason to ensure we’re not relying on state pension alone. I hate the “poor pensioners” rhetoric, I’ve had it drilled into me from day 1 of working to ensure I paid into a pension, my mum said it was the same for her. It’s not a new concept that state pension alone was never designed to give a comfortable retirement.

Seymour5 · 27/11/2025 08:10

Woollyguru · 27/11/2025 00:33

Pensioners can work if they want to and are able to. The compulsory retirement age has been abolished.

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People have always been able to work in retirement. I’m an older boomer, my State Pension age was 60, when I left full time employment. I had several part time jobs until I was 64. DH, with major health issues, worked P/T til he was 67. My mum, widowed in her 50s, worked til she was 70. She retired when her even older employer died.

Neither of our DC, or their DW/DH are likely to work after 60. Unlike us, they won’t be relying on their State Pensions. The DGC? Who knows, they are teens, and all sorts of changes will occur during their lifetimes. At least they have the knowledge at their fingertips to help with choices.

pigmygoatsinjumpers · 27/11/2025 08:16

Explainer from this morning's Times:

To be annoyed pensioners effectively now get a bigger personal allowance

Westfacing · 27/11/2025 08:26

Saz12 · 26/11/2025 16:06

Many pensioners now will spend almost as long retired as employed. Almost nobody could have paid enough taxes to cover that future pension, nobodies final salary pension scheme was fully funded by a lower salary whilst employed. These are all being paid by people working today, most of whom, wont have a final salary scheme, are being taxed more on pension savings, work longer hours than in the past, and will maybe see 10 years of retirement at most.
Of course people should expect a decent standard of living when they cant work. But it is unfair that because so many voters are retired pensions are completely protected from inflation in the way that employment income isn't.

Many pensioners now will spend almost as long retired as employed.

I can't imagine there will be many in that category - certainly not me!

I worked for 51 years from the age of 15 and received the state pension at 66 as did many of my contemporaries.

pigmygoatsinjumpers · 27/11/2025 08:28

Timeforabitofpeace · 26/11/2025 21:59

The basic state pension is around 12k. That is similar to the tax threshold. I can’t see the problem.

https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/pensions/state-pensions/

...And it's this, your National Insurance record – as well as exactly when you reach State Pension age – that dictates how much you'll receive, via one of two types of State Pension:

Reached State Pension age after April 2016?

The maximum 'new' State Pension is £230.25 a week, though you may get more or less than this depending on your individual circumstances. This comes under the flat-rate 'new' State Pension system, which began on 6 April 2016.

Reached State Pension age before April 2016?

Under the old scheme, the maximum 'basic' State Pension is £176.45 a week,* *though you may get more or less than this depending on your individual circumstances.

As you see, those of us who reached state pension age before April 2016 don't receive as much as those who reached state pension age after April 2016.

BIossomtoes · 27/11/2025 08:30

Westfacing · 27/11/2025 08:26

Many pensioners now will spend almost as long retired as employed.

I can't imagine there will be many in that category - certainly not me!

I worked for 51 years from the age of 15 and received the state pension at 66 as did many of my contemporaries.

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Or me. I worked for 45 years. I very much doubt I’ll live to be 110.

Allthecoloursoftherainbow4 · 27/11/2025 08:35

ReignOfError · 26/11/2025 15:38

I haven’t seen that. Next year it wouldn’t matter, as a full state pension will still be £23 under the tax threshold. But many - most? - of us pay income tax because we have additional state pension (which we paid extra for) or private pensions.

Are you sure you’re not mixing up exemption from income tax with her announcement about higher allowances for cash ISAs for over-65s? That’s sensible, as lots of us don’t want to risk the longer return period for stocks and shares ISAs in case we die.

Lots of younger people also don't want to risk their money in stocks and shares either but apparently we have to.
This was one of the things that made me most cross about this budget. There is no justification for it at all - what are pensioners saving 20k of cash a year for anyway?!

BIossomtoes · 27/11/2025 08:48

what are pensioners saving 20k of cash a year for anyway?!

Care home fees.

RedRiverShore5 · 27/11/2025 08:58

Pensioners also might want to save for private health care, if you want a new knee or hip replacement, cataracts, things like that, the waiting list is very long as it's not seen as an urgent operation. I have some savings put by myself for this.

Sharptonguedwoman · 27/11/2025 08:59

FlightBeforeXmas · 26/11/2025 14:07

So because of the fiscal drag from not increasing personal allowances the chancellor has announced basic state pension will not be taxable.
So if you earn this amount you pay tax on it despite having the extra costs of working.
Pensioners are also much more like to own their homes.
How on earth does this make any sense?

There's an interesting thread on FB called Shoestring Retirement, I think. It's illuminating reading. People living life very minimally, on very little cash. Even the homeowners struggle because of cost of repairs etc. Lots of folk with no private pensions at all.
Just a thought.

pigmygoatsinjumpers · 27/11/2025 08:59

Allthecoloursoftherainbow4 · 27/11/2025 08:35

Lots of younger people also don't want to risk their money in stocks and shares either but apparently we have to.
This was one of the things that made me most cross about this budget. There is no justification for it at all - what are pensioners saving 20k of cash a year for anyway?!

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"...what are pensioners saving 20k of cash a year for anyway?!"

They don't have to save 20K every year. They can save up to 20K a year.

There are many reasons why someone who is retired may have surplus cash to invest in any one financial year - inheritances, transferring funds across from non ISA savings accounts, funds released following downsizing etc. Having savings generates additional income from interest. Some may be setting aside funds in case they need to pay for carers or potential care home fees.

Do you know how much it can cost a month for care homes?

lazyarse123 · 27/11/2025 09:32

God us pensioners really are despised aren't we? For the sin of working all our lives and then getting old and wanting a stress free retirement.
We don't have any savings because my dh couldn't work for 10 years before retirement and couldn't claim any benefits. I had 4 part time jobs that just about paid the bills but didn't leave any money for a private pension.
I have been slated on here for not making any provision but then the people who have managed to save for retirement are slated for having pots of money. We can't win can we?
It's not our fault successive government's have ruined the housing market and the economy. All we did was do our best and then get old.

ErrolTheDragon · 27/11/2025 09:37

It makes no sense at all to give the basic rate and then claw some back through tax.

However (as someone approaching pension age) I think it’s high time the triple lock was done away with.

And obviously freezing the tax thresholds, particularly the basic rate one is regressive. A basic rate threshold lower than the basic state pension amount is the fundamental problem here.

Woollyguru · 27/11/2025 09:42

Seymour5 · 27/11/2025 08:10

People have always been able to work in retirement. I’m an older boomer, my State Pension age was 60, when I left full time employment. I had several part time jobs until I was 64. DH, with major health issues, worked P/T til he was 67. My mum, widowed in her 50s, worked til she was 70. She retired when her even older employer died.

Neither of our DC, or their DW/DH are likely to work after 60. Unlike us, they won’t be relying on their State Pensions. The DGC? Who knows, they are teens, and all sorts of changes will occur during their lifetimes. At least they have the knowledge at their fingertips to help with choices.

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The compulsory retirement age was abolished in 2011. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15127835

It's great that you can work beyond your retirement age and that your DH even with major health issues was also able to work unlike many people these days who'd rather claim PIP and not work.

I'm 55 and plan to go part time age 60 but will absolutely carry on working for as long as possible. I can't imagine potentially 30 years of just pottering around and I think it definitely accelerates cognitive decline and contributes to loneliness in old age.

Who knows what my DC will do when they get to age 60 but I started JSIPPs for them when they were teenagers and they know they need to save for the future. So it's likely they will have the option to stop work if they want to.

No DGC as yet but if we are lucky enough to have DGC one day I'll start JSIPPs and JISAs for them as soon as they're born.

Compulsory retirement age at 65 fully abolished

The default retirement age in the UK has been fully abolished after being phased out from April this year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15127835

ErrolTheDragon · 27/11/2025 09:44

BIossomtoes · 27/11/2025 08:48

what are pensioners saving 20k of cash a year for anyway?!

Care home fees.

Yes - saving at a point when they don’t need all of their income for a time when their costs will vastly outstrip their income.

Young people being encouraged to use ISAs for longer term investments which should grow significantly more than cash is a good thing. The risk over 20+ years is low, the likely improved returns are significant. The earlier you invest with good return rates the better - hopefully we all understand compounding). Older people otoh who will be investing for a much shorter timescale are obviously the ones who will be more adversely affected by the cap on cash isas (although S&S can I think include safer investments such as bonds and money market funds).

123H · 27/11/2025 09:44

lazyarse123 · 27/11/2025 09:32

God us pensioners really are despised aren't we? For the sin of working all our lives and then getting old and wanting a stress free retirement.
We don't have any savings because my dh couldn't work for 10 years before retirement and couldn't claim any benefits. I had 4 part time jobs that just about paid the bills but didn't leave any money for a private pension.
I have been slated on here for not making any provision but then the people who have managed to save for retirement are slated for having pots of money. We can't win can we?
It's not our fault successive government's have ruined the housing market and the economy. All we did was do our best and then get old.

Agreed!

And, of course, those of us who have worked hard to buy our own (modest) home face the prospect of being forced to sell it should we need to go into a care home (God forbid). Average care home fees are currently running around £1k per week!

Perhaps the pensioner haters might consider what it feels like to have that prospect on your very near horizon … but no, let’s demonise pensioners instead!!!

Greenwitchart · 27/11/2025 09:47

It is sad to see what this country has become...

People turning on each other and trying to vilify pensioners, disabled people and immigrants for everything rather than aiming their anger at useless politicians and big corporations.

If you are lucky you will be old one day and you will appreciate having a decent income through a pension when you can no longer work.

Stressedoutmummyof3 · 27/11/2025 09:49

surreygirly · 26/11/2025 14:26

No I have elderly grandparents I am delighted

Exactly. I don't want my elderly father to be too worried about money to put the heating on or trying to work out what he can afford to buy before he gets to the checkout. For some that extra money really matters

Mydoglovescheese · 27/11/2025 09:54

The Op’s original statement is incorrect. The budget information in today’s press indicates that when the new state pension exceeds the personal allowance the surplus will be taxed. This will be achieved either by the current system of taxation if the pensioner has additional income (as it is now) or by a new method (as yet unknown) or by self assessment.

OP relax, the pensioners aren’t getting additional benefits. Although personally I wouldn’t begrudge a few quid to anybody living just on a state pension!