Absolutely rinsed in this budget - almost £1k a year worse off.

[Mushroo]

Honestly in despair at this government. On a very high level calc, we are so much worse off!

We both pay a lot into pensions, so the NI change is about £700 a year worse off.

We have an EV car, so based on our 4k a year mileage, it’s about £120 a year. (Although how it will be enforced I have no idea).

Stagnating tax thresholds, probably about £100 a year between us.

Council tax F house (4 bed end terrace, not a mansion, needs renovating). So risk of revaluation after having paid a fortune in stamp duty. We didn’t get first time buyer stamp duty relief because we bought about 2 years too early, and we moved before Covid so no relief there either. So overall we’ve paid about £30k in stamp duty already over our lifetime.

Weve already had the private school hit (which is a separate debate and we’ve accepted that) but wow, we are just being kicked on all sides.

We are classic ‘middle earners’ - earn about £70k each, but have mahoosive mortgage and pay over £2k a month in nursery fees already.

Every measure just seems to have a negative effect on our lifestyle, which is ‘comfortable’ but increasingly squeezed.

We are both definitely salary sacrifice.

DH's set up is very confusing and complicated tbh. I don't really understand it but his contract definitely says it's salary sacrifice and it comes off his gross pay and then he pays employers NI on the remainder. He works under an umbrella company. We're just very glad his contract ends before this madness takes effect. And then we'll liquidate everything and move abroad as we have dual nationality.

I’m an accountant who has also done a lot of self employed consultancy myself inside and outside IR 35. I can’t see how this is possible he doesn’t have an employer (or a contract?) to salary sacrifice with. An umbrella is effectively a payroll company, the big ones offer NEST as a pension (not salary sacrifice- they can’t as they are not your employer)

Even if it’s salary sacrifice, for higher rate taxpayers the employee contribution is only NIC at 2%. Your post doesn’t make sense - “he pays employers NIC” it’s the employer not the employer pays employees NIC.

How does he pay employers NIC as the employee?

Also very rough calculation it looks like as a top rate tax payer you’d lose about £50 a month pension contribution through this change which doesn’t seem worth the upset?

If you’re self employed inside IR35 (with umbrella) you pay the employers NI. However, you are not an employer and can’t claim salary sacrifice

No I'm not donating any more. Supermarkets give away masses of food. It is given to middle class people in great big carrier bags for £5. You think it's fine to sell all this donated food for a pittance to people who holiday abroad and then tell me the food banks are running dry/ask me to donate to a food bank. No way.

I guess you have read DH's contract then? It 100% is salary sacrifice, it says it in black and white in his contract and it's easy to work out from his payslip.

How much was all this before the budget?
In the past people used to buy smaller starter homes and save for a bigger house rather than buying a band F four bed property as a first time buyer.

Have they claimed that they bought the current house as a FTB?

I'm not well off but I have it.

Could it be the umbrella company are ‘employers of record’ because in that case ‘they’ are the employer - and may have such arrangements - I know this because we have been looking at the reverse for visa/brexit reasons and the overseas umbrella become ‘the employer’ but bill whoever you work for

He doesn’t have a “special contract”- he’s self employed and uses an umbrella company.I’m sure your husband is a very special high powered important man but do you think the umbrella company did a special contract just for him?

If he’s using salary sacrifice maybe hes a seperate service with a tax advisor - a quick google shows a company willing to help with this loophole. Therefore I don’t see how it could be in his contract of employment either.

they are the “employer” but have a special arrangement in that their lack of control and responsibility is recognised. It’s a solution to the difficulties IR35 presents to both companies and self employed contractors

That's exactly it. The umbrella company is his employer even though he doesn't actually work for them in practice. His contract is with the umbrella company and they operate salary sacrifice.

I just don't accept that. Sorry.

I can't be bothered to argue the toss with you. You clearly have no understanding of IR35 and working for umbrella companies.

Sure, yes, but employee’s NIC over the threshold is only 2% so impact is minimal.

If somehow you are talking about salary sacrifice and him paying employers NIC then I think it’s a tax dodge going on.

I worked in-house at a large corporate and put one of these schemes in place (15 years ago!!). The NI saving is mostly for the employer (ie the company). Some employers have shared this benefit.

It’s not exactly it because we all know what an Umbrella company is and still cant understand your claim that it’s an extra £15k a year.

although he’s done bloody well to have been getting salary sacrifice as a self employed person maybe he should pat himself on the back as a the reward of all the effort he’s been putting into tax avoidance over the years - because salary sacrifice through an umbrella certainly wasn’t easy to arrange.

😂😂 you clearly said you don’t understand it.

as I said, I am not only a chartered accountant but have been on both sides as contractor and client and worked for umbrella companies myself. As the poster above said, it doesn’t add up. Not least, why the impact is apparently over £1k a month for him.

My concern is there will be more of these children as more children now = more money. More children living shit lives than before.

I am finding Mumsnet increasingly depressing. I genuinely believe that most people are actually good, then I come across a thread like this with so many posters completely lacking in empathy or understanding. The poster complaining that her tax bill is more than some people’s salary was particularly bad-it’s saying the quiet part out loud in spades. I think I might just crawl under a rug and stay there.

OP our household income id the same as yours and we would barely notice less than a hundred quid less a month. Maybe you need to cut your cloth a bit.

How does he pay employers NIC as the employee?

Because he’s not an employee, he’s self employed and channels his pay through an umbrella company. Basically he’s got the worst of all possible worlds which he could easily have avoided by setting up a limited company and channelling his gross pay through it. He’s nobody but himself to blame.

Agreed. How greedy, robotic and uninspired are these people?! How awful to have a country of diligent tax payers sneering at the less valuable and neglecting risk, entrepreneurship and creativity in favour of PAYE and nastiness?!

I seriously hope this post isn't genuine as it is just offensive to most people. Whilst I understand that everyone at all levels is feeling some form of squeeze except maybe the top 2%, to complain so much when you have a tax band F house, your kids go to private school and you can even afford an EV car is just ridiculous. You have a higher household income than 90% of the country. You may not be rich but you are absolutely NOT classic middle earners. Classic middle earners are on about half of what you are on at best.

Feel free to whine about having less money within your own walls but don't go whining online expecting any sympathy