To think raising NMW is a good thing

[Kilot]

The poorest in society will earn more. Companies will have to pay more, benefits will drop.

The difference between NMW and those in skilled work (newly qualified nurses for eg) is closing. My worry is that fewer people will be putting themselves through uni because the pay gap is minimal. Not saying folk don’t deserve more but there is knock on affect.

People are generally paid more for skill but if that gap closes what then?

Then clearly you're lucky enough to have earned above MW.

Companies will always employ the fewest people they can get away with.

Large chains of care homes, maybe. Smaller care homes are often absolutely on their knees and desperately short of extra cash. I don’t know why people think business in this country are all rolling in it

I know, it’s very depressing.

But they’re not spending in the local economy. They are buying all their clothes from SHEIN and Temu. Their household stuff from Amazon. They’re not spending it in the indie coffee shop on the posh high street.

Why not? They seem to support every other fucker.

Who do you think employs the working class??

The level of stupidity on this thread is quite astounding.

Not every business is coca-cola level, and they aren't the businesses that are going to be hit. Its the local micro/small businesses that are going to go bust 🙄

Raising minimum wage is always a good thing in principle. In reality, early years and social care are fucking fucked.

out of curiosity. Looked to see the impact if the increase NMW and NI, and came up with this.

“The extra cost of increasing the National Minimum Wage (NMW) and National Insurance (NI)
falls on employers, and can be significant. For example, one calculation for a 35-hour-per-week employee aged 21+ on minimum wage shows a combined annual increase of £2,367 in wages and employer's NI contributions, according to Consilium Chartered Accountants. The exact total cost depends on the employee's salary, but it will increase staff costs and could lead employers to reduce hiring, offer smaller pay rises to other staff, or increase prices for customers, notes the BBC and Price Bailey Chartered Accountants. “

ie. £2000+ per year per person so if you employ five people, that’s £10000 + a year extra you have to find. And that’s profit, not turnover.

So your company is loss making ?

The government should be more focused on subsidising SMEs that struggle to pay wages. Not the suits at multi million pound retailers that ideologically refuse to pay decent wages.

The thing is though no one wants Coca-Cola to go under either.

Just imagine the job loses.

The sheer hatred of everyone providing, or trying to provide jobs is so misguided.

In theory I agree with everyone being paid a wage they a reasonably live on. One problem I have is that the pay gap between people with low responsibility roles and those with high responsibility and more
demanding roles is getting smaller and smaller as there is no corresponding increase in the upper pay scales (public sector). Who wants to take on more responsibility and stress for a tiny pay increase.

A massive issue is the creeping upwards of the minimum wage and people in "middle" positions' income barely moving, and people in graduate jobs. And there are a lot of them. Graduates who have spent three or four years studying and emerge with a degree and a ton of debt earning barely any more than the people with no skills and qualifications.

I don't think people in general have a problem with poor people becoming less poor. What they are debating is whether the crude attempts to fix poverty by the government will fix anything at all. Because when more people can afford things, prices tend to go up. And when businesses are being asked AGAIN to spend more on pay and NI increases, prices will go up. People on NMW aren't suddenly going to be able to afford to buy lots of lovely things because they are suddenly better off.

You cannot just blame everything on greedy business owners.

Anyway, I own a small business and employ three people part time. Damn right I want to be paid more than they are. I take literally ALL the risk and don't get any benefits at all. People can call me names if they wish.

The cost of employing someone on minimum wage was has gone up by over 40% in just 5 years. That's a huge change for many businesses.

People ALWAYS like to think there’s an easy answer to increasing the tax take that doesn’t involve them paying more tax. See ‘tax the millions of £ companies make’. These companies already pay 25% tax. That’s not the answer. Increase the basic rate of tax if we need more money it. Everyone has to pay for better public services.

I think business owners would prefer a more favourable and more healthy business environment which pays for itself rather than being given subsidies. Making businesses reliant on subsidies won't fix anything.

The increase for 18-20 year olds is insanity. Anyone thinking thats a good thing, just as the most contentious change to employment rights in a generation is being thrashed out which will tank the job market on its own, is very, very naive.

100% this, I’ve just done 4 years degree level to become a nurse I’m on £17 per hour, pay rises are pitiful and as you have pointed out the minimum and national wage keeps going up and up, coupled with debts for student nurses in England and no jobs I honestly do wonder why I’ve bothered and many more will start to think the same

In reality society depends on many businesses that don't turn profits. Social care providers for example provide a de facto public service and many should never be expected to self sustaining.

Constantly raising the minimum wage might not be the answer but neither is refusing to when we're in the middle of a cost of living crisis and have an ideological social opposition to benefits in full swing, including in-work benefits.

Emotive image, but where exactly in the UK do people "slave away like they did in Dickens’ time for an exploitative employer."

Are working time regulations no longer applicable, or have huge numbers of workers chosen to opt out?

edited for typo

Good point.

But what do people living hand to mouth spend most of their extra wage on?

Food.

And yes, maybe a coffee from the coffee shop, instead of a Tesco own brand instant at home.

And of course, more mail order might mean more delivery drivers, more staff at the warehouses etc.

It's like I said in my post, the debate is not settled.

YANBU. Broadly a good thing, although it does hit labour intensive businesses in hospitality and social care hardest.

Governments of all colours will always put up the NMW. For the most part, the predictions of economic collapse made when it was introduced haven't happened and unemployment is lower now than it was in 1997. The costs are pushed on to private industry, and the taxpayer benefits twice- from a decrease in the welfare budget, and an increase in the tax take.

Maybe Reform won't put it up. But the huge cuts to immigration and possible repatriation policies demanded by it's core supporters will shrink the labour force and cause wage rises anyway.