Poor life planning..

[pocketpairs]

With the upcoming budget seen many "poor me" posts, particularly from high/middle earners. I find it frustrating that rather than blame themselves for thier life (& financial planning) choices, they blame some arbitrary government policy changes, such as upcoming introduction of new council tax bands.

Example: Sister & hubby earn £14k net p/m. But their choice to buy a nearly £x.xm house in SE & send DCs to private school means they have £3k (approx) to spend on everything else. They could have taken different choices...£1m houses &/or move to grammar school areas.

Clearly this is an extreme example, but I really don't understand why a family can't survive on £4-6k p/m, especially outside of London. Up until recently, I survived on much less and managed to put myself a firmer financial footing in 40s.

Sure this means some sacrifices, but it seems everyone wants to 'have their cake and eat it'.

More than that, there is a lot of financial dysmorphia about how much people earn relative to everyone else.

There is another thread complaining that a 'middle earner' doesn't get child benefit or free childcare. These people are NOT middle earners! They are fucking well off.

Some people just like whinging about paying tax. They don't seem to understand that they can only earn because of the state that supports them. Taxes are what we pay to live in a civilised society.

It's been especially prevalent since the private school loophole was closed. Lots of whinging that a luxury choice was being taxed as a luxury.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be upset about tax rises that will affect you. Yes maybe people should build in a bigger buffer to their budget, but they would still be upset to be losing money.

If you are a taxpayer you can have an opinion on it.

I agree.

As a single mum who works nearly full time with an ex who doesn’t pay maintenance, I’m constantly told on MN that my situation is because of my poor life choices and I should have picked a better man to have children with. As if the thought had never crossed my mind - in fact I think about it every day.

I’ve been told how lucky and fortunate I am that my mortgage is only £660 a month. Apparently this can ONLY be due to luck yet it’s not ok apparently for them to think about their own life choices which led them to buy £2million houses with huge mortgages.

I think part of the problem is shifting goalposts.

I think you’re not being realistic. It’s like saying to you, well I survived on 10p a week so your choices should be same as mine and you’d manage fine too. Everyone has different priorities and likes etc. I disagree that if you don’t get child benefit you're a high earner. You’re very much middle ground earner and I agree this is the demographic hit hardest. High earners pay high tax anyway but there’s something to be done around assets and loopholes for big business held outwith UK but operating here. Don’t drag everyone down because they earn more than you.

Anyone can have an opinion.

If they pay tax they can

No one has a right to anything beyond the most basic of food and a roof over their head, and I would say also an education and health care

no no one has a right to a posh house or nice holidays

yes people do think they deserve it but until everyone has the basics it’s a bit much to expect that you can have so much more, it’s a lot arrogant to assume you are worth so much more

I think there is some growing resentment that a small minority of high earning taxpayers (top 10% contributing over 60% of tax receipts) are increasingly keeping everything afloat by contributing most of the country’s tax receipts, while being means tested out of most of the benefits they are funding, and are still often being accused of not “paying their fair share” while the majority of individuals (~53%) in the UK are net recipients.

Our high earners are more steeply taxed than most European countries, while our low earners are taxed far less than most (the tax free allowance is particularly unusual), and yet there is so much public anger directed towards our majority taxpayers if they express any frustration at their proportionate share of taxation going up and up at just about every budget. Everyone wants better public services and benefits, but they only want a very small proportion of the population to pay for it for everyone else, and then balk at the idea of those same taxpayers also having equal access to the benefits and services they are funding.

The problem with 100k+ salary is that you work insane hours to get it. I have worked 50-100 hours a week for the last 8 years of my career.

I work Christmas days, holidays, I even have to check my emails on a Sunday morning. I had no social life in my 20s. I can never go for a drink Monday - Friday. My friends are work friends only.

Our juniors are leaving because they don't have the hope that i did that they'll work like dogs but make partner at 40 anymore. So there is no point.

20 years ago a man in my job supported a SAHM wife and 2 kids in private schools and a house in zone 3.

I've just signed an offer for a job abroad. I'm handing in my notice and we're leaving the UK in March.

You sound like you want comfortable people to be uncomfortable rather than demanding better wealth creation chances for all.

It sums up what’s wrong with this country and why the rich are emigrating, leaving the envious to fight over scraps.

Good for you. Why stay in a country where those that have no aspirations just want to take from others.

Good luck

Someone else will just step into your role

No loss here

Anyone has the right to have an opinion.

It's not about "surviving" is it.

If you go for a better paid job, it's only fair to want to enjoy the rewards.
And you are looking at it backwards: it's because they wanted a private school that often they went for their current job!

Why should they be penalised. It's a bloody joke to pay taxes for everybody else, who get child benefits etc and not get anything yourself.

might as well go for an easy office job, 9 to 5.

I don't think the majority of people "moaning" (worried is probably the more accurate term) about it are people in £x.xm houses with kids in private school – that's probably about 2% of the population. Most of the kids in private schools are incredibly wealthy – those aren't the people coming on Mumsnet to complain.

You can still be a high/middle earner and have very legitimate worries without having planned poorly. I'll be very transparent and list some of mine – which have very little to do with having 'planned poorly':

– the main one for most, childcare costs. For a great many people over £2k a month, more if you aren't eligible for funding. I had twins, so the double whammy on everything all in one pop can be very difficult to manage
– mortgage increasing. Whether or not your mortgage debt is poorly planned or not, due to the house you selected, everyone has been subject to very sharp interest increases.
– I have a vulnerable mother who requires financial assistance, lest I see her freeze or starve to death, or even just basically have a very poor quality of life. Yes, it's my choice, but it's certainly not a poor one.
– I also choose to assist my sister financially. Her husband ran off with another woman, leaving her with mortgage and two young kids. Again, yes, it's my choice, and again, not a poor one.
– Home repairs, we recently had a very unlucky run of them which depleted a great deal of savings
– Redundancy. DH and I were both put up for redundancy at the same time this year. It was horrendously stressful. We both made it through but our jobs (and sectors in general) are under continual threat. It seems many people forget that high earning jobs are more at risk of redundancy and also harder to get if you are made redundant.

I also massively agree with the previous poster. People get higher paying jobs because they want to enjoy spending their money. Why do you think people want more money? So they can enjoy their life to a higher degree.

What would YOU do, personally, OP, if you brought home £10k net a month? What do you wish for in your life?

Agree that everyone has different choices, and sometimes those choices are outside of our control (jobs, elderly parents, etc). But for many they have control of the choices they make.

In the example I used, if you complaining about not being able to afford an annual holiday abroad while paying a £5k+ mortgage and £55k+ school fees then the govt adding (say £1k to council tax) isn't the real issues right..

I think it’s just one of those things really, nobody is ever going to be happy to be expected to pay more, that’s just life.

I wish you the best im thinking of leaving the uk tbh.

Sure this means some sacrifices, but it seems everyone wants to 'have their cake and eat it'.

clearly when they had a much higher paid job than you did, and more spending power, they made the opposite of poor life planning! Better house and a better school, and a job to finance their choice. That couldn't be better life planning than they did - now life planning means a lot of people will be moving. Already a lot have gone away because of Brexit.

you'll find it less amusing the day you finally realise what that loss of skills, loss of earning, loss of taxes that went with it actually means for you.

One person makes no difference, but it's not just one person is it.

This sounds very much like communism.

I think the problem is that people expect X lifestyle on Y income - and for a long time, that was achievable.

A bit like @BoyFTM645, looking at eg how people my age grew up, the house, the school fees etc - probably a stay at home partner. All achievable on a professional wage, with plenty to spare.

In 2025… you are just nowhere near. Your quality of life looks nowhere like what you were expecting, so people complain.

It’s an issue for the UK if even the top couple of percentage of earners don’t feel well off. Particualrly given the reliance on them to fund everything..!

I think in London is particular the lifestyle people assume on £100-200k a year need more like £300-400k income.

We have a stagnating economy, made worse by brexit, with majority of tax receipts coming from financial services. The idea of growth leading to wealth creation is a myth in our current political environment.

I want uncomfortable to acknowledge that they are uncomfortable due to their personal choices in many cases.