Best Universities for Autistic DD with social anxiety. Looking for flexibility

[whatisgoingonandwhy]

Posting for traffic. DD has autism but is very bright academically. She struggled a lot in high school but has flown in her A levels as she is attending an online college. She would like to study psychology and work with autistic children in some capacity. Has recently started to make progress in socialising more but is extremely daunted at the prospect of having to attend classes. Are there any Uni’s that have the flexibility to attend classes in person or online, or any that are particularly supportive for those who are neurodivergent?

That post didn’t say disabled people weren’t suitable for uni at all. You’re putting words into people’s mouths.

But clearly many people aren’t suitable for uni - regardless of disability. And some with disabilities won’t be able to do certain things even with reasonable adjustment.

As I said further down, the key word is REASONABLE adjustment. Workplaces don’t have to provide adjustments if they’re not reasonable.

I know it’s shocking isn’t it?

Not necessarily disabled people. Where on earth did I say that. How about an non disabled person who just isn't very bright? But a blind person is unlikely to be able to do an Art degree for example. Jump off your high horse and actually read what's written. You choose a course in life that works to your own abilities/strengths

I used to teach art A level. Plenty of colour blind students went to art college. And a blind person could paint with texture. That would be an adjustment.

ive looked up student support plans. If they aren’t followed then the university could be in breach of the disabilities act.

Intetesting conversation with a disability lawyer.

The thread is about disabilities, unless I've lost track. I'm certainly not on any high horse.
Art and Design is actually my field and there are blind and partially sighted artists. You are already showing your prejudices - blind people can't create, deaf people can't make music.

Well, they aren’t managing to put in the ‘reasonable’ adjustments on learning plans are they?

Im sure that these student support people who get paid to write things that no one ever reads are only suggesting reasonable adjustments.

Having spent 19 years fighting for reasonable adjustments, and 40 years fighting for my own, I’m not sure many adjustments are unreasonable. And of course, they have to show they’ve tried several things and failed before they can be deemed to be unreasonable.

DS is in first year at Winchester (chosen partly because small) and has major social anxiety. He has found it really hard, with everything being new, but is slowly making progress. The support from uni has been amazing - his anxiety means he won’t reach out for support but, having given them permission to talk to me, they have been great and, whilst always keeping him updated, have talked to me about what they can put in place and allowed me to attend meetings with him. What has helped has been changing to a less practical course, adjustments for group work, a supportive tutor and the fact that he’s less than 1.5 hours away so we’ve visited at least every fortnight. The recorded lectures take the pressure off so he doesn’t need to attend them all but tries to get to most. We’re still working on him getting to seminars with tutor’s support. In hindsight an even closer uni he could commute to for first year would have meant less changing at once which would have eased him in better. He’s still got a long way to go before he’s going to be sufficiently comfortable to properly enjoy uni and transferring to OU is a possibility he’s considering but I really don’t think the uni could have supported him better.

The reasonableness is from the pov of the provider not the person with the disability.

Regardless - may I ask, do you accept that in some cases, someone’s disability means they can’t study a particular subject, or do a particular job? I’m emphasising ‘in some cases’ btw. Genuine question, not being arsey.

Yeah of course. People with level 3 ASD or brain injuries.

But l don’t think asking ‘Are you ok’ once a week is unreasonable. And l don’t think these people write unreasonable things.

Asking to install a lift shaft in a listed building could be unreasonable l suppose. But checking in with your ND students. Thats not unreasonable.

But all of that aside. How is it ok for university support staff to write detailed plans that are then disregarded by academics? It’s mindblowing. And these support plans are underpinned by the Equalities Act. Failing to put the reasonable adjustments in place is laying themselves open to litigation.

l don’t think any court in the land would find some of this minor support unreasonable.

The fact that mentoring support for communicating with tutors can be provided via DSA suggests that a PT emailing weekly to initiate contact just in case your DD needs support isn't a reasonable adjustment, because DSA can't be used for things that universities should provide via reasonable adjustments.

The support your DD needs is equivalent to students who need notetakers, or sighted guides, or other support that requires additional hours of someone's labour. If the university didn't tell you this, that's their fault. Is she getting DSA?

Yes she gets DSA. To help with these things.

This is such a depressing read. People don't want ND students to have adjustments at university, making it harder for them to gain the qualifications so many employers now ask for. Employment rates for autistic people are already shockingly low. If they do find employment, people don't want to make adjustments that might help an autistic person stay in their job. But they don't want to support them through benefits if they can't work. What options are there for ND kids with poor mental health?

My autistic DD is still a younger teen but alongside her autism she has selective mutism and crippling social anxiety. However, academically she is very capable. There is virtually no support for her as a child. It sounds like there will be even less available as a young adult, then an adult. As a parent I have done everything I can possibly think of to get even the tiniest bit of help. Reading threads like this make me despair even more about what the future holds.

Yes, l feel the same.

However my dd was just like yours at 14. ADHD medication helped. Then anti depressants helped further. Now at 19 she is nearly there. I hope this is some consolation. Mine had crippling social anxiety and mutism. She’s worked to overcome it, and we’re getting there.Yours will do the same. Emotionally they are a third behind their peers💐

Unfortunately university lecturers despite being the cream intelligence of the country have no awareness of disability rights. And even worse, refusal to engage with them. If my dd was there l’d be consulting a lawyer.

But your Dd will be fine because she’s got you. Good luck. It does get better x

It requires 5 minutes a week. Not hours.

And it was never mentioned. And it’s not mentoring.

Academics will often have 30+ personal tutees and will see them once a semester to discuss progress and anything else the student wants to discuss. This will usually be around module choices, writing a reference, placements, etc. In general, the role of the lecturer is to work for the benefit of the whole cohort, not any individual within it (personal tutoring and dissertation supervision excepted).

I once had a perfectly academically capable student with autism request weekly one hour sessions with me so I could go over everything we’d already done in class. Given I taught over 200 students a week I had to explain that the request was impossible. Individual support comes from support services and he already had 1-1 academic help in the form of a support worker who came with him to all his classes.

We do work with the support workers. In my classes I have worked with people who do sign language for deaf students, someone who took notes for a blind student (in the days before recordings were allowed), people who provide mental health support, physical support for wheelchair users, etc. So the support is there, but mostly it doesn’t sit at the level of the academic. Due to GDPR, in many cases we don’t even know unless the student declares it. We may know that a student gets an extra 15 minutes in an exam, or has a scribe, or needs to sit in a separate room for a test, but we’re not told why. When we’re marking we mark anonymous scripts ‘as is’ and then and ‘special considerations’ (e.g. permitted late submission) are applied by the faculty student office and we’re not informed unless we happen to sit on the exam board. Even then, it’s noted with a code (e.g. E4) rather that a verbal description of the reason.

That’s not the academic’s job. Every university has a disability support service (here’s Manchester’s, for example: www.dass.manchester.ac.uk). It’s their job to support the student so they can participate at course level. A lecturer can be teaching upward of 300 students a week. They can’t, and nor should they, know about the health status of every student with whom they come into contact. They’re the learning and content specialists, not the disability support specialists.

What’s the point of having a learning support plan then? I wouldn’t expect them to know about every student. I would expect them to have read the learning support plan though.

And if they are delivering to a kid with SEND then isn’t a professional duty to know about them? Otherwise what’s the point in having a learning plan?

I absolutely do want ND students to have adjustments and to access higher education. And I want these to be provided by specialist staff, who are working with them towards building skills they will need in the world of work. I'm pleased that DSA is in place to fund these adjustments, where they go beyond what the university and its staff can do under reasonable adjustments.

I have an ND DC who I hope one day might attend university, if they want to and they continue to meet the academic requirements.
As I and others have said, we also have 7 hours a week allocated in which to do all our non-classroom teaching work. Work beyond that is done in time that eats into my own time with my DC at weekends, or late into evenings making me a worse parent.

So there are some adjustments I can make reasonably (eg putting lecture slides up 24 is advance so students with processing issues can review them before the lecture, substituting a presentation for a written paper), and others, like weekly individual consultations or check ins, that I can't. If a student would struggle to initiate contact with a tutor in the event of difficulties, then support around that issue can and should be provided via DSA or disability services.

It also sounds as thought the EHCP system is making false promises and meaning that parents put their kids into situations that neither the university or the kids can handle. I think this thread is fantastically helpful for bring that to our attention and I'm really sorry that @ArseInTheCoOpWindow is having to find this out the hard way, but grateful to her for telling us.

As the Mum of a ND I'm seriously considering the OU.

Is there any reason why the OU would not be considered good enough as the foundation for a career in a very very bright young person?

My DS is home schooled with EHCP funding and the one problem is that it is very isolating, because all the other kids are in school.

Does anybody know if the OU offers opportunities for student to meet folks of their own age somehow?

I live close to two universities, but one is very very competive and one is very basic, academically.

They want EHCP kids it’s looks good on their uptake.

They just don’t want to support them.

I love how generous people are offering superb advice to total strangers. MN at its best

I have an autistic teen and agree 100%. There is difference between reasonable adaptations and not being ready for something - socially/emotionally/psychologically - despite academic skills. Delaying uni sounds reasonable.

I dont know what support universities give, but I suspect its around accessing the learning rather than social support.

Having just seen my sons cohort head off, its actually the living in halls they struggle most with. His nd friends have generally gone to the closest university to home that would accept them or stayed living at home so that their parents are close for support. Those that moved also did a lot more familiarising themselves with the town in the run up to moving there. Rehearsing stuff like this bus to this shop rather than waiting and discovering this at the same time as new people, new learning styles.

Oh for gods sake. So you take the unusual rare cases and try and use them as examples. How many blind people can paint a picture of an object that they can't see? Other artworks such as sculpture maybe.

And you said your son is academic, how about all those less academic people? Are they suddenly going to have the ability to get a first in a maths if they couldn't manage to pass the GCSE. No matter how much help and adjustments give some people can't do some things. Previous poster posted about 2 A levels English lit students that get hours after special help yet are still unlikely to pass tge exam.

. I could never work in a call centre so I wouldn't dream of applying for such a job as I couldn't hear with all other people talking around me. However I could possibly hear enough if all the other people taking calls in the room were removed. But to do that would not be a reasonable adjustment