To think free birthing should be entirely banned

[StandFirm]

I have come across this article earlier which made me feel so very angry at the cynical extremists who brainwashed a mum into an entirely avoidable tragedy: https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-interactive/2025/nov/22/free-birth-society-linked-to-babies-deaths-investigation
If I'd listened to similar cretins, I would have died in childbirth aged 19 and none of my three DCs would have been born alive or at the very least without severe disabilities. 'Pearls of wisdom' which gave me the rage include:
-ultrasounds are not safe
-women’s “bodies do not grow babies that we cannot birth”
Such ignorant perfidious lies. I hope the cult leader gets sent down for a very long time. That poor little child was robbed of a healthy body and many more actually died. I really hate the internet's ability to spawn dangerous cults entirely unchecked.

But needing intervention and consenting to it is not ‘giving up your autonomy’ the key bit is you have to give your permission for others to do it, even if it’s a situation you didn’t really want to be in and feel like you ‘have to’ do it to save your own life, you still have to agree and consent, and that’s having autonomy.

As someone else has pointed out, we need informed consent. So the woman must understand what her choices are and what they mean. Which means explaining childbirth and what can go right and what might go wrong before labour starts. If you know that placenta previa can kill your child or cause serious harm then you won't refuse a caesarian - that's informed consent. No-one is talking of forcing procedures on women. We are talking of explaining why they may be needed and that uninformed 'free birthers' etc are dangerous.

And yet I am alive now because a doctor without my consent (because I was unconscious, which, I think, explains my extreme danger) removed the feotus and placenta from my body whilst I was miscarrying. I woke up during it and it was painful - but I stood a good chance of dying from bleeding out or from septicaemia had he not acted so and had I been conscious I would have consented.

Also, not all medical interventions which we supposedly have to give up bodily autonomy for are immediate life and death risks, often it's about balancing risks. An example could be that a baby is known to be breech just before due date. The vaginal breech birth death rate is approximately 2 per 1,000 births (0.2%), a planned C-section death rate is approximately 0.5 per 1,000 births (0.05%). If a mother is properly informed of the risks, she might still choose to attempt vaginal birth, because she has bodily autonomy.

Absolutely not. Where draw the line? Banning home births?! Banning elective c-sections?

Yes of course explain it all but what if the woman has been literally brainwashed into believing everyone on the maternity unit at her local hospital is in an Anti Free birth conspiracy against her?
Most ratiomal women will listen.
Those down the FB rabbit hole won't.
Thats why it's described as a Cult.

edit typos

We don't have bodily autonomy. We are humans in a web of relationships and our acts do not affect us alone. We are not islands. But the point is that women who are pregnant need to know the options and that things can go wrong so that they can give informed consent. Some will withhold consent and some of those will have poor outcomes and it's sad - and mainly because they are not aware of the options they have, what is likely to happen, what might happen etc.
I suppose I am against the women who preach natural childbirth and no intervention and lead others into situations that are terrible and life-threatening. They have caused others to err and are therefore culpable and I would like women to be informed enough to recognise when they are being fed dangerous 'information' such as that you can easily deliver a breech baby without intervention. This always needs intervention and midwives are trained in how to manage the event, to say they are unnecessary is a lie.

Well lucky you. Your experience is not a reason to assume that everyone else will be ok should they not choose the interventions.

It's almost like a badge of pride 🙄.
Childbirth in humans is a dangerous thing. Full stop. Always was and always will be.

My grandson was still born and it was entirely preventable. But the FB movement skewed my DIL'd mind beyond rational thought. If she had been on this forum 13 months ago she would have read posts such as yours which would have affirmed her conspiracy theories.

Yes. Which is why it probably needs controlling - but I have no idea how you do it without interfering in people's freedom. Education, I suppose.

I agree - but it doesn't seem to be what some people on here mean by bodily autonomy.

I know.

Some women not all .

So are the hospitals going to shut maternity units due to unavoidable deaths also

Before this, though, childbirth was, due to the lack of hospital care from the outset, more of a 'suffer even more and maybe one or both of you will survive - if you live, you can always have another one and if you don't, well, he'll just marry another one or perhaps his sister will take the baby in if it's not too damaged'.

Nowadays one can have the best of both worlds. Have scans, have medical insights into the birth that were unknown a century ago but choose a sensible holistic approach to the birth if you choose knowing that emergencies can be dealt with.

I believe Polygamy came from this as a wife could die during pregnancy, birth or afterwards. If you had 3 or 4 wives, I guess it minimised the disruption to the husband and there was another on hand to raise the baby should one die during delivery.

Im as guilty as the next woman in not being totally honest about the pain etc of giving birth to my own daughter and being all 'oh it's all going to fine' bla bla bla.

More honesty amongst women would help I think

So should you take risks with your own children and not vaccinate?

Let's just let the few die then?

Some people do and it is perfectly legal.

Agree. You'd want to be mad to free birth, but forcing medical treatment is but the way to go

That is so sad! Did he never see his children again? Didn't he have any family who could help out?

You can't force people to accept medical treatment.

And who do they want to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong?

It is dangerous and proves they dont care about the baby just themselves

You can't ban stupid.

Agreed. As should “influencers”, who in the main are only interested in influencing their bank accounts

It’s horrific that the leader’s own baby was stillborn this year. But I do hope this makes other women who might be thinking about free birthing a lot more wary. They seem to brush all the others under the carpet and never mention them, but I think/hope it happening to her will make people think twice. I will also add, I agree there are some terrible units out there and improvements need to be made, but I had my three babies in hospital (3 different hospitals as it turned out) and had excellent birth experiences with all 3. Not at all taking away from those that have had awful experiences- just that it isn’t always the case.

Free birthing is Darwin's theory in action - weeds out the stupid.