Throwing water on an out of control Bunsen burner flame. Yes or no?

[ruethewhirl]

Setting is a dental surgery. I'll provide more context shortly, but for now I just want to get some reactions to the question.

YABU = this is OK
YANBU = this isn't the right procedure

@ruethewhirl the orthodontist that does my son's braces uses a small blowtorch to adjust new wires for the braces before fitting them, so I wonder if it's similar for dentures, as they have a wire element I think? Whatever they were doing, it sounds unsafe and that they didn't have a clear process to follow in case of any issues.

I wondered if pp had NC'd specially for this thread, tbf... 😄

Having set a few bunsens alight with dripped dental materials I can sympathise. Off at the gas tap is best.

Usually what happens is molten wax or similar drips inside and causes the flame to come from the base. People often don't bother to keep them clean so it happens quite easily.

Really useful to get some opinions around this. I think the dentist probably did just panic and I did sympathise with him as it was evident he was shaken up. He kept saying he'd never seen it before in 20+ years of dentistry so I guess it won't have been on his radar particularly, but I would have expected his health and safety training to be up to snuff.

But I do wonder why the gas supply wasn't turned off. Tbf I guess it might have been turned off eventually, but not before the smell of gas was in the air, which was unnerving to say the least. One of the staff said it was 'normal' and I'm not necessarily disputing that, but given what I'd just seen it wasn't easy to feel fully reassured.

I dunno, we did receive repeated apologies which I accepted, we're all human etc. It was also explained to me that [can't remember the exact terminology used] basically the burners were certified safe to use and couldn't cause the building to catch fire. But this wasn't explained till after the event, and there was more than a hint of defensiveness in the mix. And I'm still unnerved that there were a bunch of staff in there eventually, all standing around with what appeared to be little idea to how to deal with the situation.

(ETA: re gas, when the supply is shut off does that instantly kill the flame? Excuse my ignorance, I dropped school science lessons at the earliest opportunity, which was many yonks ago. 😄)

Yes it should kill the flame, unless something else has caught fire in the interim

We lit the gas taps in chemistry. Can't imagine why they trusted a bunch of 13 year old around flammable substances 🤣

Throw a chip pan of fat over it.

I'm joking of course!

We don't use fat in chip pans anymore, we use Crisp 'N' Dry oil.

Ah thanks. In that case the gas wasn't off. Weird that none of his colleagues suggested that!

You've just put your finger on what disconcerted me about this - the lack of any apparent protocol, which made it harder for me to accept any reassurances that things were under control.

Really useful to get some opinions around this.

Fire safety doesn't need opinions. It needs hard facts based in science.

TBH it takes very little gass to make a smell. That's the whole point of the smell, even the student fiddling with the gass taps when it's turn off can make a lab smell a bit. There is residual gass in the pipes, but even without pressure from the gass it defuses out.

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Maybe not ....

OK granted, opinions was probably the wrong word as it was the facts I was mostly in need of. The whole panic and lack of protocol, though, was where opinions felt helpful as I feel the practice almost normalised this and tried to dismiss my concerns.

I’d hope at least one person in a dental surgery has a chemistry gcse. Just turn the gas supply off?

This is what puzzled me. DH (science graduate) has just underlined it as well. We're talking about five or six staff who either don't know, have forgotten or are in too much of a panic to think of the obvious... worrying.

Although the sensible option is to turn the gas off, were they actually using a Bunsen connected to a gas tap or was it one of the ones that screws into a small gas canister? If particularly unfortunate something flammable could have dripped onto the outside and the unexpected flame made it difficult to access the valve to switch off the gas. There should still be a clear procedure though of how to extinguish in case of unexpected/uncontrolled fire.

Thanks, that gave me a much needed laugh! 😄

Is using Bunsen burner a dying practice in dentistry now, then? (genuine question)

They are probably regular users of bunsen burners so I find it hard to believe that it didn't occur to anyone to just turn the gas tap off.

Turning the gas off would immediately limit the fuel available to burn to just that which was in the rubber hose connecting the burner to the tap, so unless any additional nearby materials had also caught fire then the flame would quickly die. Once it has then a window can be opened for a few minutes to ensure any residual gas has cleared. Job done.

They sound like a real load of faffers, to be honest.

"basically the burners were certified safe to use and couldn't cause the building to catch fire."

FUCKING HELL that is some complete and utter bullshit if I ever heard it! That statement alone would have me certain that they were bullshitting you and trying to cover their arses.

It's a flame - a FIRE! Of course it very much has potential to set fire to the sodding building if applied incorrectly.

You can raise a concern with HSE, anonymously, about any business. You can tell them the exact nature of your concern, or ask them to do a general audit. I strongly recommend you do this, so that some adults can come in and make sure they've actually got safe working practices.

I was once unlucky enough to be on the receiving end of a fire in a commercial kitchen. I can confirm, that people are often utterly fucking stupid when face to face with an unintentional fire. Customers who could see flames coming out of the kitchen still trying to order a pint before they evacuated, staff hearing the fire alarm and coming to go into the room to gawk, and the piece de resistance a manager who tried to get me to put it out with water - it was a fat fire!

This is why emergency drills exist. We are supposed to do our training until it is second nature to do the right thing so that if god forbid a real emergency happens our primitive monkey brains don't immediately melt.

True that they might be using bottled gas, but surely that comes with a regulator device which has a lever that turns the gas on or off?

The ones I mean are just a very small canister and the burner screws directly into the canister and so the valve is at the base of the Bunsen itself rather than there behind anything on the canister. There are actually quite commonly used in labs as having piped gas can be considered a hazard. You would still have to be very inept to set fire to the outside but if things get out of control it could make it more difficult to close the valve than on a gas tap system.

"I feel the practice almost normalised this and tried to dismiss my concerns."

So you didn't report them, most likely.

I would contact the fire service and raise a business safety concern, for their lack of awareness alone.

Hope your mum's flame-grilled gnashers survived

This is really useful info. At the time I couldn't see how he was saying anything that produced a flame couldn't set fire to its surroundings, I wondered if he was claiming the burner couldn't produce a flame big enough to do damage, but... that was pretty much what was happening before my very eyes, so it did smell of 'cover your arse' tbh!

I did think it was pretty alarming that the guy's colleagues were all standing there looking on and also didn't seem to know what to do.

Update: I had a call this evening from the practice informing me the incident had been logged, they were discussing how to 'learn from it', the dentist passed on his apologies and they hoped my mum and I were OK. I appreciated the gesture and it did sound sincere although of course I realise they may well be scared I'm going to escalate.