To think I should be able to be a better friend, if only I knew how

[MargoLivebetter]

My good friend who I have known since school days is struggling and every time we meet up I feel like I do more harm than good but I don't really know what to do. I want to do better and would welcome some constructive input.

Friend has two early teens DC with some difficulties (usual stuff these days possible ADHD, possible autism, possible oppositional disorder etc). She doesn't get on particularly well with the eldest. They are undoubtedly a handful. I've baby sat plenty of times and they are not easy, but they aren't horrific either. They have a lovely home and no financial worries. My friend works part-time, her DH full time. So there are definitely some issues but nothing that I would think of as catastrophic.

However, my friend is definitely not coping and hasn't been for some time. She has always erred towards the negative, but it has reached new levels now. Every time I meet her and speak to her, it is as though the world is ending. Every small thing that goes wrong becomes a massive issue. The worse case scenario is always envisioned, expected, imagined, acted out.

I really do listen and I understand that people need to vent but I find the catastrophising really difficult, because it takes her down such dark routes. I don't think it is healthy to just listen to that, as it seems to me to be indulging fantasy scenarios that are miserable, awful and distress her, so I try to gently steer her in different directions. She frequently ends up crying at the scenarios she is imagining, not the stuff that is actually happening. I suspect she is very depressed and suffering from anxiety and I have asked if she has thought about talking to her GP about how she is feeling. She knows that I took ADs when times were tough for me, so it is not like I'd be judging or anything like that.

BUT, everything I say is dismissed, brushed off, undermined and so on. I end up feeling like what I am saying is just irritating and unhelpful. At the end of every conversation, I feel as though I've made things worse not better and I feel increasingly ill-equipped to deal with it all. Not that this stops her from getting in touch regularly.

I've come to dread the phone calls and the meet ups. Is there anything I can do better or do I just wait it out?

She's mentally unwell. You can't make that better with words. She really does need to go to her GP, but you can't force her to go or even make her see that she needs to.

I think it's really important to remember that you are a FRIEND in this situation, not a paid therapist. You need to be mindful of how your interactions are affecting you, not just her. If the friendship is draining you mentally then it is ok to take a step back and if she asks why, be honest and say something like 'I love you and our friendship Janet, but I think you need to speak to a professional about your feelings and I'm not able to continue our current level of relationship while all of our interactions are so negative'

Agree. You are her friend, not her therapist.

You cannot "fix" her. It doesnt matter what you say, this is something she has to deal with herself or seek help from a professional mental health support. I feel like you are taking over responsibility for her life and your role in helping her- you can be a friend to her but thats it. You are not powerful enough to fix her mental health issues or to elicit a huge life change for her after meeting a few times for a coffee. True change will take time and effort on her part and she has to be willing to do the work.

You also need to put in some boundaries and recognise when her mood is starting to affect your mental health because your MH is just as important as hers.

She sounds very worried about things. She may be crying out for help about something and not feeling heard about it even though you are clearly being a kind friend. I would stop giving advice and tell her that you can see how upset she is. Perhaps ask if she can think of anything to stop things getting to the stage she fears they will. But at the end of the day everyone is right. You're not her therapist.

I think that actually, you need to go for a bit of tough love.

"Right Marjorie - you have spiralled down this exact same 'what if' scenario every single time we've got together recently and it always ends badly. The epitome of crazy is doign the same things, the same way and expecting a different outcome. So, if you want to talk about how you are going to address your anxiety issues I am 100% there for you, but if not, let's talk about something else."

Also, as PPs have said, you are not her therapist. So your job is not to sit there in this spiral of doom if it's messig with your own head. Being supportive of a friend shouldn't mean a) huge negative impacts for you and b) you can't tell them what you think.

I would just start any conversation with ‘do you want my views, or do you need me to just listen’. If it’s the latter just nod and agree where appropriate. If it’s the former and she still doesn’t react well to your advice, the next time she asks I would just say ‘I’m just going to listen because I get the feeling that my thoughts aren’t helping you’.
BUT I would caveat that by saying that if these conversations are too draining for you or are badly affecting your mental health, you are not obliged to have them. You aren’t a therapist and her mental health not your responsibility. That doesn’t make you a bad friend.

I was in your friend's position a couple of years ago. It was horrendous. Puberty was when the wheels feel off completely for my kids who have all since been diagnosed ASD/ADHD. Up until that point, they had masked a lot and muddled along, keeping most of their difficulties for home rather than with friends/family/at school.

What compounded the misery was feeling judged by friends and family, that I was exaggerating and that my struggle to cope was a personal failing on my part.

This part of your post really jumps out at me:

They are undoubtedly a handful. I've baby sat plenty of times and they are not easy, but they aren't horrific either. They have a lovely home and no financial worries. My friend works part-time, her DH full time. So there are definitely some issues but nothing that I would think of as catastrophic.

I can understand your frustration with her. I imagine she is aware of what hard work you find it spending time with her.

However, it's possible that she feels your judgement of her.

I had a friend who distanced herself from me when I was really struggling and very negative. I can absolutely understand why. Spending time with me was not fun! I always felt that she thought as you do about your friend and frankly it was easier once I stopped meeting up with her.

If you can't let go of the judgement of her, I think it would definitely be better for you to distance yourself.

If you can think about it another way, that what outsiders see is not always the full picture, then maybe the friendship will survive.

I really don't think you can be making things worse for your friend or she wouldn't want to keep talking to you. In fact I'm sure the opposite is true; people can usually tell if you care.

As others have said though, you must care for yourself first and consider your own well being.

The friendships that did survive that really shit period always involved doing other stuff than talking about daily life over a coffee. I always asked after her as well, conscious that I offloaded a lot and she still had stuff going on.
So, cinema, talking about TV, books, going for a swim/run together, bigger things like a trip to the theatre for example. Those things really helped a) me feel a bit better and b) the friendship not just be all about me and my problems.

If you can't let go of the judgement of her, I think it would definitely be better for you to distance yourself

I think you may be projecting here. The OP hasnt expressed judgement at all- she has stated that this friend is constantly worrying about dark things that never actually happen (and even crying about things that havent actually happened in real life) which is the correct, textbook definition of catastrophising.

She is also asking how to be a better friend so I think this is uncalled for. It sounds to me like OP is trying super hard to support her friend and is finding it increasingly taking a toll on her own mental health

Hi, it’s good that you’re trying to be a good friend, but from similar experience I can say that sometimes we just don’t know what to say, or we have already said what we could have said and it no longer has an effect or makes a difference. Maybe it didn’t even make a difference from the beginning.
You say that you are starting to dread phone calls, which is understandable because there’s only a certain amount of times that you can listen to someone go on and on and be negative. There comes a point where you just don’t know what to say anymore, And that’s understandable because you’ve already tried and it hasn’t worked. I think if this carries on for much longer you will eventually start to ignore her calls, not that you’re trying to be mean or anything but it just gets too much.
It sounds like she needs counselling, if she refuses then I know this sounds horrible, But then what does she expect you to do? Just listen to her go on and on every time? That isn’t fair on you, and it won’t solve anything.

Thank you all. It is so hard to know what to do for the best. I think she does need mental health support but any time I raise it, she says it won't work or no one understands. I think that this in itself is a sign of depression, but I'm just an ordinary person, I'm not in any way qualified to say that to her.

@JoeySchoolOfActing curious to know how I'm judging her - other than I'm concerned that she is very depressed. I baby sit so that she and her DH can go out and she can have confidence that her DC are in safe hands. From time to time I will take the DC out for an afternoon on the weekends for a few hours. I already meet her for coffees, but I work almost full time, so I don't have unlimited availability to do more. I'm not doing any distancing at all - I'm fully there but I'm not sure I'm helping!

Agree with PP - you arent her psychologist and of course it's hard to know how to deal with this if you arent a trained mental health professional.

I had a friend like this once and after years and years of similar behaviours I had to end the friendship. I did everything I could possibly think of doing- supported her in the middle of the night when she needed to talk, lent her money for therapy, babysat for her so she could have a break, you name it, I did it, but after 14 or so years nothing changed.

Whatever I suggested wouldnt work and was pointless and she would shoot down every suggestion. Alternatively, if I agreed with her it just reinforced how crappy her life was and she'd get more upset, if I challenged the narrative then I was "unsympathetic" and didnt understand.

Basically, I couldnt win and I also started to dread seeing her name pop up on my phone. We are no longer friends now and whilst I wish her well and hope she did sort her life out, the relief of not having to see her any more was overwhelming.

@MargoLivebetter when you say:

They are undoubtedly a handful. I've baby sat plenty of times and they are not easy, but they aren't horrific either. They have a lovely home and no financial worries. My friend works part-time, her DH full time. So there are definitely some issues but nothing that I would think of as catastrophic.

Ok @JoeySchoolOfActing I still don't understand. Is it my assessment that there is nothing catastrophic that you see as judgement? Or my assessment that the DC are a handful but not horrific? That's me trying to inform the thread. I'm not saying to her that the DC are handful but not horrific.

Yes, I understand you're not saying that to her face and that you are providing context to the thread.

That context however is your assessment of her situation. You're making a judgement, which we all do when assessing anything.

You're not explicitly saying 'I think she is exaggerating/overreacting/lacking in resilience/lacking in good parenting skills' but the fact that you share this assessment here could be interpreted that you think those things and she may be able to pick up on that.

I appreciate you're trying to help her, you're putting in loads of time to look after her kids and give her a break. You're concerned that she is depressed. I can see that you're not distancing yourself now, but I would fully understand if you did in future. It's very hard work.