To avoid PTA raffle

[Caulifleur]

We have a fabulous pta which works hard and raises loads of money.

I know there are perks of being senior PTA but at my dc primary school there is sometimes a feelings of “dividing the spoils” at the end of an event like a school fair or bbq. I always feel a bit uncomfortable and I’ve stopped helping out at clear-up.

Recently there was a lovely raffle at an event. PTA said they’d hold the draw at the end. I stayed to clear up. But they waited til everyone left then let their kids draw the winning tickets. The kids were sniggering and I realised they had each bought a ticket and hidden it in their palms so they just pulled out their own ticket, literally the top prizes were all taken by the PTA!

The pta team had their backs turned but the kids were loud and obvious and if I could tell, their mums and dads must have noticed.

I do think it’s nice to reward the pta but I think it’s a bit rich to literally take all the prizes!

aibu to spurn the raffle in future?

Its fraudulent, nothing more, nothing less.
I would be making a complaint to the police, never mind the head teacher!!

It's not potentially fraudulent.

If what the OP says is true, it is fraudulent.

Past PTA chair of several years standing and that is OUTRAGEOUS.

We used to be so worried about avoiding any accusations of favouritism or "fixing" any raffles, everything was always done in public, we used an old fashioned tumble tombola thing to draw the tickets, adults drew the prizes not children.

We never "divided the spoils" because that's not what a PTA is about! We bought tickets as other parents did and if any of us won a prize, we did so fair and square. This needs to be raised with the Chair, or the headteacher.

A school event with no members of staff present, you say? 🤔

I would not be able to not say something.

Send a letter to the head and copy in the PTA. You can make it anonymous and as if you were a parent who left early. Just say something like that you were surprised that the raffle was not drawn at the event and no results published and that this process needs to change in order to avoid the impression that it is not being carried out fairly and in accordance with the relevant rules. Add that failure to change is likely to lead to a reluctance within the school community to support both the raffles and any other fund raising events.

Well definitely no one has ever been there to make announcements or thank everyone for coming like I’ve seen at other schools. I think the governors run a stall usually but by clear up time there’s no staff around.

Really? And you haven’t said anything?

Come on, you know full well it's deliberate. Either stand up and speak to the Head or continue to let them get away with it, it's up to you

Wow. Makes me wonder what else they are being corrupt with.

There’s no way I’m sticking my head above the parapet. It would cause an absolute furore.

They are a really hard working team. Two of the mums are quite close friends of mine. They do full time jobs and donate enormous amounts of time to helping the PTA. And though it is a large school (3 classes per year) hardly anyone helps them out, and I have a huge amount of respect for the massive amount of work they do organising lots of wonderful events across the year. The PTA raises a lot of money for the school and provides a lot of enjoyment for kids and families locally.

Perhaps I was just unlucky with what I saw at the events I attended as I do agree with others posts that it seems unlikely they can be doing this all the time as at some point surely someone would notice it!

I was absolutely horrified. I haven’t breathed a word to anyone and I have no intention of doing so.

I do feel complicit - I feel sullied by being there.

An earlier post suggested asking the head to print the names of the Raffle winners in the school newsletter and I think I’ll do that.

Cool story, bro.

Welcome to MN.

If they are doing this so brazenly I would wonder what else they are doing? Would be interesting to see their accounts!

Being 'hardworking' does not give them a licence to steal.

Your friends are thieves, pure and simple and you know it.

I helped to run the PTA at my DC's school for years, and we were nothing other than completely transparent.

If they're happy to steal the prizes, I'd be very interested in seeing how transparent they are with the money raised from each event and who looks after the figures.

Snap!

Time for an audit methinks.

I’ll let them get away with it then!

Weirdly, my mum was caught up in PTA fraud in the 80s. She took over as Treasurer in my primary school PTA, and as she was a bookkeeper she quickly realised things were being replaced with alarming frequency - a box of paper towels here, a catering-size tub of coffee granules there, a huge bottle of ketchup etc.Over time the thefts escalated until one day the PTA said it wanted camcorders to record highlights of the events, and six months later no one could find them. They had disappeared from the PTA cupboard. She did some sleuthing and concluded the theft was most likely perpetrated by Mr B. (a parent-governor of good standing who happened to be a local police officer) in collusion with the school secretary. To complicate matters, the male head teacher was notoriously having an ill-concealed affair with the secretary.

Mum had no chance of proving it. She quietly left the post saying she was going to focus on St John’s Ambulance and Sunday school.

So I have always just assumed PTAs are hotbeds of scandalous affairs, theft and corruption!

I know it sounds like I’m making this up . I’m really not!

The only time I organised a raffle I made sure the draw was done in a public place, drawn by someone neutral, my immediate family didn't have tickets and anyone who wanted could be there.

Illegal. The Raffle’s governed by the Gaming Commission. Not just a bit shit but illegal

Please report this.
Encouraging children to do something illegal.
Awful.

I think you should rock the boat, OP. It might be an uncomfortable thing to do but it is the right thing - as long as you are certain about what happened.

What's the point of starting this thread then if you are not going to do anything to change it?

Many of us with PTA experience can absolutely relate to the same handful of people organising all the events and doing all the grunt work to make it happen, without a word of thanks and lots of complaints from parents who never lifted a finger but always knew how to do things better. But we managed to put on events with a shoestring budget and the bare minimum helpers, AND STILL BE HONEST ABOUT IT!!

The law about raffles is simple. If you sell tickets in advance for a draw held later (and that would include when everyone has gone home) you need a licence. If you only sell tickets for a draw which takes place later during the same event, you don't. Fixing a raffle in the way described isn't a dodgy raffle, it's taking money under false pretences.

Just go and chat with the head, and ask that draws are made DURING the event , in front of everyone else, and problem solved. Or just start discussing it around, and people will naturally make the change when everybody agrees.

nd so no one ever really notices that the raffles just sort of disappear.
really? that sounds very unlikely.

Every school raffle event I've ever seen brings a dozen of "who won, did I win, what about the raffle, who got the prizes" from some parents. Even when the prize draw was very public but they happened to miss it

Our raffles were always drawn in public.

I remember once helping at a bottle stall and a local doctor was in charge. He purposely kept the winning ticket for the star prize in his pocket then put it in the mix halfway through the event so that we'd sell more tickets.

I'm genuinely curious as to why you posted if you're not actually going to do anything about it. It honestly sounds like you're writing a short story or something with the way you're aware it's not acceptable but instead of doing the right thing you would just condone fraud so casually.

I'll let them get away with it then

In which case you're complicit.

This is not only immoral and theft but they are encouraging their own children to be dishonest and greedy. I can see the moral dilemma given how close you are to these women but jeez, you can’t let them get away with it. They’re behaving appallingly. And any governors colluding with this are breaching the Nolan principles.