How do you define poverty?

[RubySquid]

I read a lot of threads here about people living in poverty but how is it actually defined? Is it just earnings and all other income ignored. Or total income? Or money left after housing costs and bills?

Well if you went by what you read on mumsnet then earning less than 100k is poverty 😂

Well, according to Starmer, the British public shouldn't be able to comfortably afford a home repairs bill.

I’ve seen this referenced a couple of times on MN but haven’t been able to find the actual quote. Google isn’t helping me, do you know where/when it’s from?

I think the official definition is below 60% of median earnings? Seems fair to me.

In terms of income taken into account, I would use all regular income- earnings but also dividends, interest, pensions etc. I wouldn't count one off's though- say Grandparents paid for a holiday to Disneyland or a new fridge.

Homeless/ not enough money for basic food items

It was something he said around the election about a working person is someone that can't just write a cheque for a new boiler or something like that

Absolute poverty is where you can't afford the basics like food, utilities, housing.

Relative poverty is where you can afford the basics but have nothing left over for anything above that and are less able to participate in society.

BBC Bitesize has a good guide: https://www.bbc.co.uk/bitesize/guides/z7gmn39/revision/3

There’s relative, which is an income below 60% of the median wage, and absolute, which is living without essentials such as shelter and food.

Relative is problematic because it means people can have a comfortable income if the median income of a place is very high.

Poverty is a funny one. It’s instantly recognisable and hidden and it can be found with addiction and poor mental and physical health, crime and misery.

That's tricky though isn't it. I know it's not a reliable source of income but the reality is when I was a single mum using tax credits and scraping buy (to pay big mortgage and nursery fees on my own) I would never have said I was poor because I had holidays on my family's yacht and in their holiday house., my parents paid for car repairs and hobbies and books for the children and bought me a laptop. Finances were tight but we didn't miss out on anything. And their help with car repairs etc meant I never had to worry about a debt spiral.

I volunteer for a charity now and help people in situations like mine who don't have family to bail them out. Their lives look very different to how mine did then, even on similar disposable incomes.

Here @ShesTheAlbatross you shouldn't be able to write a check to get out of difficulties

https://news.sky.com/story/sir-keir-starmer-says-those-with-assets-not-working-people-paving-way-for-possible-tax-rises-13240521

@ShesTheAlbatross I found this from Sky News interview with Beth Rigby:
Sir Keir Starmer has hinted at possible tax rises for those who own shares and assets, saying they do not fit his definition of "working people".
The prime minister was asked to share his definition of a "working" person after Labour's election-winning manifesto promised it would not "increase taxes on working people" - but who exactly that covers has not been entirely clear.
Later he said:
Sir Keir said he believed a working person was somebody who "goes out and earns their living, usually paid in a sort of monthly cheque" but they did not have the ability to "write a cheque to get out of difficulties".

Cheques? Wonder what century KS is in then?

Thank you @JoyintheMorning@vellichoria@RedRiverShore5

Christ that’s a miserably low bar.

There is an "official" definition used by govt and charities

• Relative low income: This refers to people living in households with income below 60% of the median in that year.
• Absolute low income: This refers to people living in households with income below 60% of median income in a base year, usually 2010/11. This measurement is adjusted for inflation

Some definitions of poverty are based on disposable income.

This is a much better way to look at I think. According to the definition of relative poverty, my family and I live in poverty. We have a household income of £44k, however, we have zero housing costs and hundreds of thousands in savings/investments. To say we live in poverty makes an absolute mockery of the definition.

I don't really think you can definite it in absolute terms with income. You could be a pensioner in a fully paid for house with very few bills and be on a low income but also not be poor.

For me it has more to do with not being able to afford necessities for living (so disposable income per person per household). So I would define poverty as people who are regularly not able to afford to eat, heat and or clothe themselves adequately.

Absolute poverty where you are homeless and starving. Relative poverty where you don’t have sufficient means to live like others in your community.

Poverty to me means being unable to afford food, clothing and a roof over your head. It does not mean being unable to afford the above after you have paid for fags/vapes and the latest knock off Uggs and your monthly iPhone 16 payment, new eyelashes and lip implants.

I define it as not having enough money to meet basic needs (housing, food, clothing etc).

As well as the obvious roof over your head, food, clothes and warmth for basic living, I think a phone and internet access should be added into the mix.

Everything is online these days - medical appointments, banking, claiming benefits, school apps and so on.

It could be argued that if you cannot afford a basic phone and internet access, you can't participate in society fully.

Another element of poverty, imo, is when you don’t have any flexibility to deal with emergencies. When your DC is ill or your car gets a flat, and you lose a lot of money sorting it out. That’s more about social poverty perhaps- no support network, an employer that only pays for the work you do regardless of circumstances.
Similarly when having a disability or disabled child prevents you accessing things others take for granted.

I know the above isn’t strictly relevant, but they are predictors of poverty.