Do you think we should life the two child benefit cap?

[Marshmallow4545]

I believe that the majority of people think that the cap should remain and child poverty should be tackled in different ways.

Personally I would like to see children on FSMs allowed free access to after school extracurricular clubs and activities. I would also provide more poor families with access to food banks and would look to stock these with a range of healthy and nutritious options either through donation or state funding if required. I would also look to recruit volunteers to offer advice on health and diet in these places. I would provide clothing and school uniform banks with high quality, second hand clothing that kids would actually want to wear. I have some branded 'fashionable' stuff my kids have grown out of that's still in great condition that I would happily donate.

All of the above in my view is preferable to lifting the cap and would be more effective in tackling the impact that child poverty has on the child.

So AIBU that the two child cap should remain and we should look at other more direct ways to tackle child poverty?

Of course the cap should be lifted! I can't understand why anyone would want children to stay in poverty when experts have told us how to prevent that!

This! If you have to rely on benefits you should not be having more kids! Poverty should be managed in other ways.
If you have 2 kids and can’t afford 4 don’t have them!
I have a Merc but would like a Porsche but I can’t afford one. I don’t expect the tax payers of this country to pay for it.

Yes, I hated reform before but now I’m starting to think that they might be a better option then labour. I certainly can’t vote labour.

If you're a higher tax payer then you earn far more than UC could ever have got you, cap or no cap, so why would you not have been incentivised to work?

People on mumsnet love this little fantasy that if we lift children out of poverty all the high earning 'strivers' will kick back and stop working. It's so blatantly not true and ridiculous.

My belief is that child benefit should be given as vouchers which are restricted in how they are spent. Yes this is very nanny state, but there is always a perception benefits are spent on alcohol, vales or cigarettes

You assume that CB is spent on fags n' drink, perhaps. Don't assume it's general. As the vast majority of parents receive CB, and CB is there to assist with all the costs associated with bringing up children (which go far beyond feeding them) have you thought through how your scheme will work? I'm always struck by how often many proposed "solutions" to lowering the cost of a govt-funded thing are more complex and would involve a huge amount of additional costs (admin, printing) to implement them.

As much as I like getting things for free, my DCs don’t need free school meals and the money would be better spent elsewhere. I donate back to the school more then the free meals cost my year 1 dd gets (as it’s universal until end of year 2).

Most people receiving the child element of UC are working hard in minimum wage jobs - they are the people caring for your elderly relative, the teaching assistants in your children’s classrooms, cleaning our hospitals and serving you in the shop and restaurants etc… They are decent, hard working people who work just as hard for their money as those in higher paid careers. They spend every penny they have just trying to give their children the minimum they need. Wages are too low for the cost of living for many people. I think these people have as much right to have 3 children as those working in higher paid careers. The UC child element doesn’t cover all the expenses of having a child and so it would be a silly decision to have more children to become more wealthy. Many people who have more than two children have had their circumstances change, maybe a divorce, death or illness in the family. For all these reasons I think that lifting the two children benefit cap is the right thing to do.

It's the falling birthrate. We need people to look after us and generate tax income in our old age.

By a Porsche isn't a child, is it? It's a machine, not a person. But whether you like it or not these children exist, and they grow up in poverty, and that blights their whole lives. And lifting the two child cap is the difference between 500,000 existing children growing up in poverty, or growing up with the basic necessities of life.

We don’t. But the time they enter the workforce it’ll be changed by AI.

But is it right that parents just over the threshold can't afford another child but someone on UC could have another because others will be paying for it?

I think we should scrap the 2 child only. The birth rate is falling. We need more children to be born. It’s a problem throughout the western world.

If Labour simultaneously increase the welfare bill while raising taxes then they have completely trashed their manifesto promises and will be opening the door wide to a reform government. They have no popular mandate for that and no, I hope they do not lift the cap. There are other ways of protecting children that do not involve rewarding feckless parents. I desperately hope they come to their senses but unfortunately I think Starmer is far too weak to stand up to the left wing of his party.

Absolutely everything you have listed as ideas is what is provided at my school.
in terms of the cap and lifting it, I don’t know enough to comment.

AI will be foremost in the mind of the government think tanks, we are moving towards universal income. Everyone will be on benefits.

I think raising the 2 child benefits cap will have precious little effect. But the money will get spent (not put into savings) by the families who need it... its one way to boost the economy a little bit.

Yes it should stay unless they also address the unfairness in the whole child benefit system

why should “poorer” families be supported to have more children paid for by the taxpayer than they can afford but others are not by way or the child benefit higher income charge which penalises single income families

It’s the right thing to do to lift the 2 child UC child element cap. There are other ways to tackle the huge debt the country is in. This is a sensible and caring move if they do lift it and will restore confidence in Labour. I’m 100% behind this. It may very well be what stops Reform as well.

Again its not child benefit that has a cap its never been child benefit
Its the child element of universal credit that's capped and its significantly more than child benefit .

I don't really understand your point. Is it that because Family A can't afford a third child because they're over the the threshold, the children in Family B should be made to live in poverty as some kind of cosmic retribution?

Child benefit is capped. It's capped my income, if you earn over a certain amount you don't get it.

Enriching activities where children get to find hobbies, learn new skills, keep fit and meet other kids should not be considered a luxury. Unfortunately years of austerity means we no longer have youth clubs and similar community initiatives that provided children with something to do. In some areas this pushes kids into gangs and crime, in other areas it means kids are isolated, not realising their full potential and potentially physically unhealthy. All kids deserve the same opportunities.

Also your point about no incentive to work - that’s simply not true. Many children who would benefit from extra support as detailed in the OP come from working families. But we’re living though a COL crisis and wages are low in this country. Imagine wanting to deprive children from some second hand nice clothes because some richer families have had to buy their kids nice clothes brand new?!

If living in poverty means living in households earning less than 60% of the median income, who are the new people ending up living in poverty if the cap is lifted? I’m not saying don’t help children but I assume that the people below the new poverty figure will be the disabled and pensioners who also have limited choices to increase income.

My area has schemes where you can get things like second hand uniform and children’s winter coats at very low prices. It costs money to get to this warehouse but it is both environmentally friendly and a helpful idea.

I believe that many schools do subsidised (free) breakfast club and after school care for low-income families too (maybe FSM?) I think that taxpayers would prefer practical help like that so parents can work.

I don’t think it should be lifted. Tax should not be increased and the 2 cap lifted.

We are told that lifting it will lift children out of poverty yet when it comes to it no-one will show figures to prove this and we’ll still have thousands in poverty. There never seems to be enough money. Many people are restricting to 1 child, sometimes 2, it’s sensible, it’s manageable esp in cases where relationships go wrong.

People talk about needing more workers - really? Have you read the multiple posts of people not being able to get jobs. Seen the benefits bill for those that aren’t working? Whose to say all these extra children will be taxpayers?!

I have no doubt they’ll lift it. Giving more to their voter base and screwing the rest of us, except when we all change our habits so get tax take actually falls.

Exactly this. There are over four million children living in poverty now. I don’t want to live in a country where this is the case. The cap should absolutely be lifted and if parents’ behaviour contributes Sure Start should be resurrected.

Yes i realise that most benefits are means tested
But some posters seem to think that child benefit is capped at two children it isn't, you can have ten children and if your eligible for child benefit you will get it for all of them
It's the child element of universal credit that is capped at two children.