To think the UK unfairly taxes families?

[OwnGravityField]

I have just found out that the UK is an outlier, in that it completely stops collecting a form of social tax (NI in the UK) once someone gets to pension age.

In every other country, pensioners’ contributtion as a proportion of income is much more similar to working households.

Example of disparity in the UK:

A working person earning 25k pays:

• Income tax: £2,486
• NI: £1,002
• total = £3488

A pensioner with an income of 25k pays only:

• Income tax: £2,486
• no NI
• total = £2486

So, a UK worker on 25k pays 40% MORE total tax than the pensioner (the difference between 2486 and 3488).

Let’s compare with a beloved utopia of fairness, such as Sweden: worker on similar salary pays 9% more tax than a pensioner.

Yes, other countries have slightly larger differences, but none except France come anywhere close to the UK difference in tax treatment between workers and pensioners.

In the interests of balanced sharing of info: France is tax and spend basket case. France taxes workers roughly twice as hard as pensioners. It’s obscene and the country is practically bankrupt.

Most other European countries narrow the gap by keeping small health or social contributions on pension income.

You might be thinking most UK pensioners don’t have 25k coming in? Nope. 3 million have individual incomes of 25k or more.

Anyway, I think it’s shocking that people at the most expensive time of their lives (kids, mortgage, food) are taxed so much more heavily. AIBU?

Not just pensioners. Anyone on here under pension age will just be paying income tax on savings/investment income, rent on their BTL.

Don't make it all about pensioners and you have a much better argument.

Just wanted to add I am a pensioner and wish my income was £25k.

Pensioner benefits do need to be looked at, but demonising pensioners is neither mature, sensible nor pleasant.

Yes, fair better to chastise young people and accuse them of moaning for acknowledging facts. That's a good way of reducing intergenerational inequality.

You said that people receive 15 free hours for 38 weeks. Incorrect, I think? It appears to be 30 free hours.

Of course pensioners don’t need childcare 😁 I was saying that pensioners earning up to £100,000 per annum - which I’d argue is fairly universal - do not qualify for 30 hours of social care.

Sorry, I thought obviously.

Those pensioners received no free childcare at all. Swings and roundabouts.

Many

Nobodies saying that working people are not having a hard time. What we are saying is you are not unique and what it is you want today's pensioners to do about it.
I would be happy with them increasing tax and getting rid of national insurance especially if the threshold were £25000 as has been mentioned.
Our combined pensions don't come near that figure.

What on earth? You are literally the people benefiting from the NI payments: you are receiving your pension and using the the NHS (the NHS is part of the reason we have such an ageing population)

my generation are very unlikely to be recieving any state pension.

Working people still have to pay NI even after they have paid for the required number of years

Maybe because by the time I retire I would have paid NI for all almost fifty years and don't get any additions to my pension after 35 years anyway

I hate the attitude to older people on here. These are your parents and grandparents for gods sake. It’s disgusting.

Many pensioners are happy to acknowledge facts and are doing everything they personally can to help their younger relatives.
They just generally don’t feel the need to be rude about those younger generations, which would be equally invalid. Yes, some do. They’re miserable gits and probably always have been.

I know. I’m heading towards retirement . I’m currently juggling full time work, kids in uni and elderly parents. I’m doing my bit and have worked hard and scrimped and saved throughout life. Really not getting why I need to be hated and younger people many of whom aren’t in work and have contributed little need everything handed to them on a plate.

I am neither a state pension age boomer or a member of the younger generation. My view is that the general standard of living is better now than it was when I was a 30 year old. So I would expect the lot of a 30 year old to be better now than 29 years ago. I also know that when I was 30 years old I was better off at that age than someone who was 29 years my senior. Here's some of ChatGPTs thoughts on comparing 2025 to 1996.

While a direct cost comparison for 1996 is not available, UK residents have an increased frequency of foreign holidays compared to 1996, with a significant rise from 27 million overseas trips in 1996 to over 45 million in a recent year.

0.45 cars per person in 1996 to around 0.56 cars per person in 2023 (the most recent comparable data available for per capita statistics)

In 1996, the UK's eating out culture was less frequent, with a more formal and less boisterous approach to dining out.

Have 30 year olds ever heard of the 3 day week? 1970s power cuts? The winter of discontent?

In 1957 Macmillan said "most of our people have never had it so good" and it's a bloody lot better now.

The current generation of pensioners covered the pensions and treatments of those before them. Obviously. That’s the way the system was set up. Don’t blame the recipients.

No, you possibly won’t. Do you receive free hours of childcare? Today’s pensioners didn’t.

That’s life. We can all only live dictated by the systems we are born into. It’s not personal choice!

My personal choice would be to not receive the winter fuel allowance my husband is entitled to and which I will be in a few years.£150, given our income from pension. Ridiculous, we don’t need it. We didn’t ask for it. We got a letter saying he would receive it. Yes we can give it to a charity of our choice but that’s not what I want. I’d rather that money went to someone if whatever age struggling with their bills. There is no mechanism for giving it back! Again, system, not personal choice.

I am single and childless! How about I don’t have to pay tax towards family benefits😎.

i will never benefit from childcare, UC, no children going through school, etc etc.

it will never be fair OP. Because so many people take out more than they put in.

We are paying towards a pension on our NI contributions - will the pension even be there when we retire?

@MrsSkylerWhite your DH could have opted out of the winter fuel payment. The date to opt out for this year has now passed (15 September).

Agree
I can’t believe OP wasn’t aware of the tax system
Oh I didn’t know this …shock horror
🤣🤣
is such a lame excuse to start an ageist thread

Ps I’m not a pensioner and not prone to bouts of envy either

I'd raise the tax free allowance to £17500 and then tax everything at 30%.
Wages pensions, rents, dividends, interest on savings and all state benefits.
Then its fair to everyone.

oh no! a pensioner bashing thread, never seen one of those before.

Thank you. He’s just retired, was completely unaware. Will make sure we are on it next year.

I’m not blaming the recipients: I’m literally explaining why I believe that you should continue to pay NI.

ultimately it’s a pointless tax: even if you didn’t pay it, your state pension would be topped up with pension credits. I strongly believe it should be scrapped and replaced by income tax

I’ve paid NI nearly 30 years. Was made redundant and received an absolute pittance in Jobseeker’s Allowance. Seriously wondered what the point was in contributing to the pot was

Very good points

I know mn likes to trot out the "but it's not an insurance"

It is a social contract. They pay in when they are young and worked. And when they no longer work, the social contract ensures they can eat.

(both my parents worked, we couldn't afford holidays most years, we didn't get a car until i was 13 and they rented for a long time.)

Working people have always had to continue paying ni after the required years
Many younger pensioners of today started working at 16 and retire now at 66 so that’s 50years

What attitude in particular do you dislike? This thread is about the unfairness of pensioners paying less tax. Younger people are being discriminated against here, not the elderly. The elderly are getting special treatment. Younger people are poorer than their parents, for the first time in hundreds of years, and feel that it is unfair that their elders are being favoured by the tax and benefit system. Some older people have a very poor attitude towards younger people, even poorer given the above facts. Of course, there are many wonderful, kind and thoughtful older people but these sort of discussions always seem to bring out the nasty ones and the ones who want to pretend that they are the victims. It only makes the divisions worse.

Actually, I"m in the top 10% of earners, but from a very low income background originally. I'm happy to pay tax. Plenty of it. It's the entitlement and arrogance of those who don't want to pay, despite being fortunate enough to be easily able to that sticks in my craw. So you can get of your high horse.

It was understood to be a social contract, I agree.
Do you think that this 'social contract' still exists though? Do you think it will exist for today's 20/30/40, even 50 year olds? Why are the elderly entitled to pay less tax and have the benefit of a triple locked pension paid for by people who will clearly never receive such generous benefits, if any at all?