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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Fuck it - the government will look me

666 replies

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 09:05

I am becoming increasingly frustrated with the way our country is run. I love my country, but what on earth can I do to fix it? the Rachel reeves pension and stamp duty rumours have tipped me over the edge.

I believe 90% of our lives is the summation of our own choices. Bar (some of) our own (and families) health and tragic life events, there is very little we can’t choose in this country.

I’m not saying that the playing field is fair - I absolutely acknowledge that some groups face structural barriers that make good choices harder. Others are unaware those choices even exist. That’s where government should step in—not to equalise outcomes, but to equalise access to meaningful choice.

I think we all acknowledge that bad governments are ones that take away choices. This government, however is also taking away choice by incentivising bad choices. Policies should nudge people toward self-sufficiency, not make state reliance easier than self-reliance, or rewarding short-term decisions over long-term

Our Government should be working towards equitable availability of choice (not equal - see below) to make sure those choices are as easy and available to everyone. Policies should be in place to make sure people are encouraged to make the right choices.

I increasingly feel like I make the right choices and think what was the bloody point!

I’m going to wish I never paid into my pension soon and went on holiday instead! Should I just spend my money, move into a smaller house and quit my job. At this point I think I’d be better off.

Jargon Buster - EQUALITY - It’s assumed there is a level playing field and everyone gets the same resources. EQUITY - Everyone gets what they need to succeed, which may mean different levels of support.

OP posts:
Kirbert2 · 09/11/2025 14:03

Swiftie1878 · 09/11/2025 14:01

I get that, but if the benefit is substantial enough to pay to lease a car which the recipient does not want, then it shouldn’t be paid, surely?

I guess the problem is in the calculation to decide how MUCH money should be paid in PIP?

Why? When it can be used to help their mobility needs in other ways?

YesSirICanNameChange · 09/11/2025 14:03

If it's too much money, quit your job and claim it.

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:03

They came for the ‘rich’, those who could afford private school, private sector workers. Now it is people in fairly average jobs and the disabled. You vote in a party who has the type of divisive rhetoric Labour have, this is what happens.

@Legolava I really don't see labour as any more divisive than the previous tory government who did a fair bit of benefit bashing themselves & freezing the tax bands targeted a fair proportion of those on average salaries.

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 14:03

Kirbert2 · 09/11/2025 14:01

The intended purpose is to help with mobility. That isn't going to be a car for everyone, it might be an electric wheelchair or taxis.

Yet a quarter of all new cars are leased through taxpayer funding. So it’s not exactly rare, is it.

Swiftie1878 · 09/11/2025 14:03

PandoraSocks · 09/11/2025 13:52

You don't understand. The mobility element of PIP is not awarded to people so that they can use it to lease a car. It is awarded in recognition of their mobility needs.

But they can choose to use it for that. Other people use it for electric wheel chairs, or to pay for taxis or whatever they think fit.

Edited

The costs of each of those options have such wildly different price tags though, surely (given this is taxpayer money) more care needs to be taken in the cash allocation dependent on the reality of the needs of the disabled person?

EasternStandard · 09/11/2025 14:04

Legolava · 09/11/2025 13:59

I don’t think we can. The whole mindset needs to change. It is cultural and will take generations to fix. The countries people want to emulate take pride in contributing, they see it as their public duty. We just have a majority population who want to know what they are entitled to from other people’s money.

It is a mindset. We are crabs in a bucket. If you do well and are successful, you
can’t be congratulated or keep the fruits of that success. You’re cash cows for an ever increasing majority who feel entitled to that money. People here don’t want to better themselves, they want other people to do it and take reward.

A few key differences to those economies people want to emulate are: higher taxes on lower and middle earners, time limited welfare and universal incentives. Here, we punish high earners because they must redistribute their money 👀 In other western countries, tax allowances, childcare and child benefits are universal. That’s because they want the higher and productive earners paying in as much as they can. Win, win for everyone. The higher tax payers keep paying more in. They feel they are getting something back and are valued. Here, they are hated and punished at every turn. They should be thankful they can work apparently. The hidden marginals higher tax payers face are a disincentive to working more. We are an outlier on this and it makes the burden very high.

It has been modelled and studied time and time again. Our tax system is harming productivity. The electorate here are too short sighted to realise that actually, there is a tipping point with tax. If the barriers to the greatest taxpayers were removed, for example: reduction of childcare, 100k cliff edge etc. There would be more money to fund their welfare state. It’s an act of self harm because the general public cannot see past their own nose.

Edited

Yes it’s so engrained. We’ve created a problem, idk why that was wanted but it’ll be incredibly difficult to reset expectations.

Kirbert2 · 09/11/2025 14:06

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 14:03

Yet a quarter of all new cars are leased through taxpayer funding. So it’s not exactly rare, is it.

I never claimed it was. Just that using it for a car is optional.

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:06

To which I would add that very often those higher earners aren't relying on NHS or state education, which makes their higher contribution even more contributory.

@Calliopespa do you really think that? We have a decent income but use state education & whilst we use private healthcare for certain things I still use the NHS & did so for my births. My peers are similar.

Perhaps you are talking about those who earn a lot more but then tbf some of those won't be on paye.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 09/11/2025 14:06

Isn’t the website that helps people know what benefits they can claim actually called Entitled? I swear it’s something like that 🤣

PandoraSocks · 09/11/2025 14:07

So. Disabled people are getting bashed if they get PIP and use it to lease a car. Disabled people are getting bashed if they get PIP and don't use it to lease a car.

I am off to spend my Carer's Allowance* on some nice wine to help me cope with this madness.

*Which I pay tax on. Am I a only a semi-scrounger?

Swiftie1878 · 09/11/2025 14:07

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 13:57

@Swiftie1878 & do you believe that if we to receive a bailout all state pension payouts would cease?

No. I think the pain would be spread out.
I think retirement age would increase though, and we’d wave bye bye to free bus passes etc and the Triple Lock.
Over the coming years, State Pensions will disappear. It’s inevitable. Thankfully most people now have private pensions. Those who don’t should be fearful.

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 14:08

Kirbert2 · 09/11/2025 14:06

I never claimed it was. Just that using it for a car is optional.

An expensive and egregiously frivolous option.

Fluffyjumpertime · 09/11/2025 14:08

HellsBalls · 09/11/2025 09:11

There are definitely bots on here. If I have no activity do a couple of days, miraculously someone/thing will like an old post to tempt me back into the pond.

OP accidentally left in a long dash!

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:09

@Legolava I have said for years on here that child benefit & "free" childcare should be universal. The cliff edges are stupid and one reason I have stayed part time. DH doesn't bother doing much overtime because again not worth it when accounting for tax. It definitely harms productivity.

A few key differences to those economies people want to emulate are: higher taxes on lower and middle earners, time limited welfare and universal incentives

As i said I don't see how we increase taxes at the lower end with the distorted housing market.

Legolava · 09/11/2025 14:09

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:03

They came for the ‘rich’, those who could afford private school, private sector workers. Now it is people in fairly average jobs and the disabled. You vote in a party who has the type of divisive rhetoric Labour have, this is what happens.

@Legolava I really don't see labour as any more divisive than the previous tory government who did a fair bit of benefit bashing themselves & freezing the tax bands targeted a fair proportion of those on average salaries.

Well you wouldn’t but they are. It started off with VAT on school fees. It was ok to whip up hate against the rich. Ironically, we are outliers there. It has just made private schooling more elitist than ever. Then they targeted the pensioners, then the disabled. They backtracked. Then employers, business and the private sector. Now it is anyone in a fairly normal job who has worked their way up and got a degree. Oh, not forgetting anyone who saves for a pension. The kite flying is on purpose so all of those groups turn their anger to welfare claimants and it then gives them the mandate to cut. Clever if it wasn’t going to scorch the Earth economically.

Puffalicious · 09/11/2025 14:09

Phonicshaskilledmeoff · 09/11/2025 10:08

Bad choice - poorly phrased.

An example - Feeling like you can’t retrain for a career that would benefit society because as soon as you go to university a ton of the money you are entitled to stops. Particularly infeasible if you’ve chosen to have your children already.
Therefore - there is no choice because your children would starve. Therefore the ‘bad choice’ of staying in the lower paid job or none at all is the only/ incentivised choice.

Not true actually. DNiece had a child at 19- father walked away.

She was housed, supported whilst at college part-time & child care provided. She then went to university. She worked & then did a post-grad. She's now a primary teacher, married with another child & a mortgage- paying taxes & giving back to society.

She had a choice & was able to take it. I'm not saying everyone can, but she & others are given that choice.

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 14:10

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 09/11/2025 14:06

Isn’t the website that helps people know what benefits they can claim actually called Entitled? I swear it’s something like that 🤣

Sums it all up really. Everyone is entitled to other people’s money. It’s like they feel they have a right to it. You will give me your money or I will call you names.

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:11

@Swiftie1878 absolutely the triple lock would go, it should be paused now.

However I simply replied to @WildLimePoet posts saying I didn't think we are near the point of an IMF bailout which would then result in stopping the state pension. She much think you are as stupid as me now!

Letsbe · 09/11/2025 14:11

Do you think we might be less overweight if the fast food chains were not bombarding us with adverts. Or the hospital where my son works in A and E had not just installed a Greggs or we taught kids in school how to cook and not food tec?

Choices are not always clear cut and down to the individual.

MrsMurphyIWish · 09/11/2025 14:11

EasternStandard · 09/11/2025 14:04

Yes it’s so engrained. We’ve created a problem, idk why that was wanted but it’ll be incredibly difficult to reset expectations.

Agree.

I said upthread I don’t want to return to the days of shame I felt as a child but when I stayed with foster carers I thought “I want this”.

Julen7 · 09/11/2025 14:12

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 09/11/2025 14:06

Isn’t the website that helps people know what benefits they can claim actually called Entitled? I swear it’s something like that 🤣

Yes, how apt.

EvangelicalAboutButteredToast · 09/11/2025 14:12

Swiftie1878 · 09/11/2025 14:07

No. I think the pain would be spread out.
I think retirement age would increase though, and we’d wave bye bye to free bus passes etc and the Triple Lock.
Over the coming years, State Pensions will disappear. It’s inevitable. Thankfully most people now have private pensions. Those who don’t should be fearful.

Considering we’ve just established a large portion of the population are in receipt of benefits to survive why do you think ‘most people’ would have private pensions or enough private work place pension for a comfortable retirement ?

WildLimePoet · 09/11/2025 14:13

Swiftie1878 · 09/11/2025 14:07

No. I think the pain would be spread out.
I think retirement age would increase though, and we’d wave bye bye to free bus passes etc and the Triple Lock.
Over the coming years, State Pensions will disappear. It’s inevitable. Thankfully most people now have private pensions. Those who don’t should be fearful.

But Rachel from accounts has decided to tax salary sacrifice. Which means people will save far less. And employers will also reduce/remove this because it will cost them NI.

So this thick as mince chancellor and government strikes again. Disincentivize the taxpayers from even saving for their own retirement to take their money so it can go to those who feel they have a right to your money instead.

Calliopespa · 09/11/2025 14:13

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:06

To which I would add that very often those higher earners aren't relying on NHS or state education, which makes their higher contribution even more contributory.

@Calliopespa do you really think that? We have a decent income but use state education & whilst we use private healthcare for certain things I still use the NHS & did so for my births. My peers are similar.

Perhaps you are talking about those who earn a lot more but then tbf some of those won't be on paye.

But does that change my point that plenty of them are?

Swiftie1878 · 09/11/2025 14:13

bottledboot · 09/11/2025 14:11

@Swiftie1878 absolutely the triple lock would go, it should be paused now.

However I simply replied to @WildLimePoet posts saying I didn't think we are near the point of an IMF bailout which would then result in stopping the state pension. She much think you are as stupid as me now!

Well she’s right in that it COULD happen! I’m just a little more optimistic than that, obviously.