Have just been told I am a naive feminist

[user3572]

Apparently, thinking that men need to be educated in not assaulting women because of the clothes they wear, and giving girls the confidence to dress how they want to dress, is being a naive feminist.

This was said by a man.

And?

He's probably a rage baiter. Ignore. People like that will disagree for the sake of it and will never change. Save your energy

i'm going to guess that there is more to this than you are able to say?

Well, you've spoken to a pillock

Shame that dickheads like this are still out there

Just ignore the arse

Why do you care so much what he (or anyone) thinks? Seriously.

I don’t agree with you, I’d probably call you misguided - but again, who cares? Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Well, men don't actually assault women because of the clothes they wear. They assault women because they're sick perverts who don't think women are really people, and then they (and their creepy defenders) say it's because of short skirts or something.

I do get what you mean, but at the same time, it's a bit like saying burglars should be "educated" not to burgle. Criminals exist - always have, always will, and they're not going to disappear. If you think education will do the trick, I sort of get what he means with the "naive" comment. This feminist thinks it's about power, not persuasion - we'll have less rape when conviction rates are higher and rapists are less likely to think they can get away with it. Self-defence classes for women would also help. Imagine if we had daily news stories about how some nonce attacked a petite woman and she broke his jaw or whatever - maybe a few more of them would think twice.

I absolutely think I should live in a society where no one steals but I still lock my front door.

I absolutely think I should live in a society where my DD should be entirely safely coming home in the early hours of the morning but I’ve still taught her to avoid things which would increase her vulnerability.

Men should absolutely bear the responsibility for not attacking women, but “wear what you want” is a naive and risky concept (for both men and women)

Hi.

Have you seen the 'what were you wearing' project? Trigger warning: survivors of sexual violence disclose their stories

What Were You Wearing? — Susan B. Anthony Project

Thank you @RedNine

He's a wanker OP.

Well he sounds like a chauvinistic rape apologist so I wouldn't put much stock in what comes out his mouth tbh.

This is why we need feminism.

He didn't say women and girls are asking for anything, did he? Calling you a naive feminist is calling you a naive feminist.

To steelman his statement; given how some girls dress these days, ie rolling up their skirt when going to school. Why do they do that? Who do they do it for? Would it cost anything for a bit of modesty?

He's already been written off as a rape apologist and God only knows what else, so no point in engaging.

He's an arse. We need to continue to push the fact that men need to keep their paws and everything else to themselves.

Naive not really, you need to be realistic that the message hasn't got through yet

Hmm. I find him naïve. Men are a lot like X.L Bullies.

Absolutely delightful a lot of the time! But there’s no way to tell which ones will suddenly turn.

If he's not the predatory type he might think it's insulting to suggest men needing educating to not be violent. I tend to agree we should stop making excuses for them. They do know it's wrong which is why they don't generally sexually assault women when there are lots of witnesses.

indeed. And tell him he sounds like an apologist for offenders and see how he takes that.

Or a patronising prick. You choose op!

There is no evidence linking attire to risk of being attacked.

The man is clearly an idiot. Best ignored.

But we all risk assess don’t we?

Women aren’t ever to blame for being assaulted or attacked.

But if I’m going to have to walk home alone at night I wear shoes I can run in.

If I wear an unusually revealing outfit in a nightclub I’m more likely to attract attention from deeply unpleasant men.

If I wander around in dodgy area carrying an overtly expensive designer handbag that might not be a very safe choice.

My son saved up for some fancy trainers - he’s careful when he wears them.

Standards of appropriate dress for both men and women are different in different countries round the world.

The man the OP was talking to was clearly an arsehole, but unilaterally saying “I can always dress how I want” without considering circumstances, location, risk etc is naive.

Yeah. I mean, so what? Rape apologists are going to produce apologias for rape.

These days? When did you go to school, the 1800s? Girls have been rolling up their school skirts since mini skirts were invented in the 60s!

There is no evidence linking attire to likelihood of assault.