AIBU to think Australia's completely lost the plot with how it funds schools?

[DenimFatball]

I was reading an Australian forum this morning about their school system - it's a bit of a class bunfight (we never get those here on MN lol) in parts, but if you get past that, some of the numbers and the teacher stories are really eye-opening.

www.everybump.com.au/community/forums/topic/15983-how-do-you-balance-ideals-about-equality-with-publicprivate-school-choices

Apparently about a third of kids there go to private schools, and the government still funds them. In some cases they even get more public money per student than the state schools, which are billions short.

So basically, the rich get smaller classes and shiny facilities while everyone else gets the scraps. Teachers are burning out, and the whole thing sounds like it’s on the brink.

It did make me wonder if we’re heading the same way here. With ongoing cuts to state education and all the talk about “efficiency” and “choice”, it feels like we could easily end up in a similar mess if things keep leaning further to the right politically.

AIBU to think that’s completely upside down? Or is this just what happens when politicians start treating education like a business instead of a public service?

Any Aussies on here who can clarify how it got this bad?

In oz the state schools also request a “voluntary contribution” every term of minimum. $800 plus parents have to spend probably another $1000 on all the things they use including paper and text books and pens etc which if they take them into school then they get used by the kids whose parents don’t bother buying them anything so then the parents who DO buy them get pissed off as they are basically funding other people’s kids too!
also this”voluntary” contribution isn’t voluntary. If you don’t pay you get daily emails and calls from the school telling you to pay. If you point out it’s “voluntary” they say well it’s not! If you hold off paying they will literally send debt collection letters out!!

1). The government wasn’t able to educate every student. They didn’t have enough teachers. This goes back to the 1890’s when the various colonial governments turned to the Catholic Church to assist the spread of universal education. The government paid but the church supplied.

2). Putting your child throughout private education means you pay for it twice via fees and taxation. Most private schools tend to set their fees according to their local Social Economic Status and the government subsidises accordingly.

3). The NSW government tried to defund the Catholic system. It didn’t end well for the government. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-21/catholic-school-sector-funding-private-schools/10289746.

Not every system fits every child. Choice is important and that choice shouldn’t be dictated by the finances of the family.

Yep schools are crap here 🙁 my friend had to supply toilet paper! Because the school couldn't afford it she also had to buy a laptop and a iPad

I would point out that there is no such thing as a state school being full and closed to enrolments. (Goulburn excepted). If you walk into your local state primary or secondary school, they must take you in. There is none of the annual angst I read about on Mumsnet.

Aussie here. My kids go to a Catholic private school and class sizes are around 33 kids per class. No shiny facilities. We are actually saving the tax payer money when sending kids to a private school. Government funding is 75% to public schools and 25% to private. My kids are not in a Catholic school for a better education, our state public schools perform quite well academically, my kids are at a private school more to be with like minded families with similar values. The Anglican/Methodist private schools are generally more expensive than the Catholic schools (by around 3x), with smaller class sizes, but that’s only fair given the fees charged per child which are quite substantial. Children in private schools are funded more by the parent/s via fees than the government.

Apparently about a third of kids there go to private schools, and the government still funds them. In some cases they even get more public money per student than the state schools, which are billions short.

A lot of those will be diocesan Catholic schools, which are by no means elite. When I lived in Australia, most catholics came originally from poor backgrounds of Irish or Italian migrants. catholic education was for poor Catholics, but the schools are classed as “private.” Most catholics in Australia are working class, nowhere near an elite class.

Best friend in Sydney has a son in the state system and daughter at private school. By no means are they rich.

You have no idea what you’re talking about. Yes, a third of kids in Australia go to private school and they are part government funded. But that’s why there is much LESS divide in terms of outcomes between the two, because the private schools are available to a much wider range of the population. Arguably to almost anyone who chooses to allocate the money to it can send their children private. Almost none of them are academically selective. There is none of this insane tutoring at 4+, 7+, 11+.

I went to a modest private school in Australia and had a great time with excellent extracurricular activities and pastoral care, but I would have received just as good an education at the decent state school down the road. My parents as a one civil servant and in teacher didn’t struggle to afford it for two children. I suspect it is much more like the U.K. was 50 years ago when many middle class people sent their kids private.

My DC now to go to private school in London and it’s a vastly different experience. Lots of insanely wealthy parents, small class sizes, good facilities.

Thanks all, this is really interesting to read especially from those actually in Australia. I had no idea the Catholic system was such a big factor in the numbers. It sounds like there’s a huge difference between the low-fee religious schools and the really elite ones people picture when they hear “private”.

I think what shocked me most reading that thread wasn’t so much who goes where, but how underfunded the state system seems to be in general, and how much pressure teachers are under.

I do get that funding the private sector might have started as a practical solution when the system couldn’t handle everyone, but it seems like it’s now so baked in that fixing it politically would be near impossible.

I never want the UK to go down that path.

YANBU, @DenimFatball

The way the Australian props up the private business of schooling is appalling.
Sod the "paying twice". No more so than someone drives a car while their taxes fund buses and trains. Nor are such people doing the government system favour by their choice.

No non- government schools, whether secular or religious should pay for everything. Not a penny from the taxpayer.

So by this thinking, why should government schools fund everything? Let every parent fund their own child. I have no more wish to fund someone elses child in a state school than a private school. Especially as in many cases the private schools are cheaper.

Possibly wasn't clear enough:

Government schools funded by state and federal taxes
Non-government schools pay for everything themselves.