Child councillors conduct

[rainbow9713]

Did origionally post in mental health, however have not received any replies there. So posting here to hopefully get some replies/advise. Hi this isn't my firsthand experience, however has really upset/ unsettled my mom and she doesn't know if she should say something.
My brother is 14, school have referred for am ASD assessment. He is diagnosed dyslexia. The school had a community nurse come in to assess him for ADHD traits, she concluded that she didnt see any ADHD traits, however she noted school anxiety.
My mom managed to source councilling for my brother and the first session was yesterday. She handed the paperwork to the councillor explaining the nurse came in to assess for ADHD traits, however concluded school anxiety.
The councillor then went on about he is an ex teacher amd ADHD wasn't a thing when he was teaching, however it had now blown up 🙄. How all these things come out of the schools budget and they dont get any extra funding for that.
Saying that his daughter in law is the same as my mom, and every little problem she is trying to label her child.
Disregarded the nurses assessment of school anxiety and said to my brother infront of my mom, I dont know why your here, yoh dont know why your here, does your mom know why your here.......
Am I wrong in thinking this is completely unacceptable conduct from a child mental health service? Im ot saying people cant have opinions, however I thought councillors were supposed to be non judgemental and there to help. Not in my opinion complete arrogant, condescending arseholes.
My mom doesn't know what to do as she has been battling to get my brother some kind of help, and now it really feels like a case if be careful what you wish for.
She doesn't know whether to pull him to one side next time and tell him how he made her feel. Or to just leave it and keep bringing my brother there, or sack it off completely.
Sorry this is so long, last bit my brother is not very open to anything being identified, however there are definitely 'issues' whether that be neurodiverse a mental health issue. So what the councillor said infront of him has also made it more difficult for my mom as my brother is just like 'see i told you there was nothing wrong with me'.

Bloody hell. Your poor, poor mum. How dare he?

Was this counsellor part of the school or the GP surgery? Was he registered with the BACP? Your mum should write down everything he said this evening - quotes are best needed if you decide to complain - and you certainly should…

From my experience some counsellors really shouldn’t be in a position to give others help and advice.

“We offer a free counselling service from the centre of . Your sessions will take place in one of our warm and welcoming counselling rooms. The counsellor you see will be experienced and will offer you a calm, confidential space to enable you to explore your thoughts and feelings. Things happen in life and sometimes these things can cause us to feel down, anxious and generally not ourselves. Here at , you will be shown empathy and understanding whilst you work through and gain a better understanding of what is going on for you, and discover the person you want to be.”
This is how they advertise there services, I have taken out the location and name of the place though.

ABOUT US

For over 20 years has been a charity providing holistic support to young people and their families.

And this is how their about us with the name taken out of their organisation.

They also do support groups to support families with children with ADHD and ASD. Yet their councillors dont seem to believe ADHD is a thing 🙄.

Thank you for replies, and if anyone has anything positive to say to my mom as her response was 'so its my fault yet again' would also be greatly appreciated ❤️

This particular counsellor, he may be inexperienced m, in training or just rubbish. Your mum needs to ask for a different counsellor (they should agree to this though you may need to wait for someone to have space). She should also complain in writing to the service manager - the counsellors conduct was appalling.

I think you tell your mum “well done” for keeping fighting for him, it’s so difficult to get the right kind of help and it often means knocking lots of doors before finding the right one. Its especially hard to do that when your child doesn’t want help - she’s going the best she can, and this rogue counsellor hasn’t helped bit that isn’t her fault.

If your mum has sourced the counsellor herself and is not happy with the person assigned, she can ask for your brother to see a different counsellor or she can choose another organisation altogether. A counsellor isn't there to diagnose neurodiverse conditions, they are there to talk through your brothers difficulties and help him find solutions. It doesn't sound like the counsellor your mum met is the right person in these circumstances.

It was totally inappropriate of him to share his opinions like this. Very unprofessional, and has undermined your mum's trust in him. Not all help is useful, and some can be downright damaging.

For context, we had a massive battle to get DC assessed, the schools, LA and the local NHS Trust put up lots of unnecessary barriers because my DC does not present in the way expected of a young boy with his profile (masking, AuDHD & Sensory Processing Disorder). Got there eventually, so the time, effort and cost is slowly paying off in better provision and adjustments at school (mainstream).

What issues are school and your mother seeing that cause concern? What support was she/DB hoping to get from the counselling charity?

I would not subject my DC to such a counsellor for a further session, tbh he sounds out of his depth in dealing with suspected neuro developmental issues, and highly unprofessional to be so dismissive before getting to know DB and his stuation. I would write a formal complaint to both the charity (his manager, as well as the Trustees) and the referring body (was this school? LA?) outlining what was said and questioning if this is considered suitable behaviour, and that it has now setback your mum's attempts to get help and support for his difficulties.

If you can afford to have a clinical psychologist assess him, that's what I'd get done first. Find a well qualified professional who has experience with diagnosing neuro develoomental conditions and in writing medico-legal reports. Once you have this you can decide on next steps. If this is not affordable, you can wait to get the autism assessment on the NHS, and ask for a second opinion with regards to ADHD traits. Just a community nurse observation is not good enough. At the very least the Conners ADHD Scale questionnaire should have been given to mum, DB and the school (teachers who work closely with him) to fill out. If you can get an appointment with a,specialised ADHD nurse, that might be more useful. However, there is only one in our whole Trust and we could only access her post diagnosis, but it might be different where you are. Find out what the procedure for ADHD assessment referal is in your NHS Trust, and get your DB on the pathway if there is evidence of ADHD/ADD traits.

I would be looking up national charities that support children with SEND/ALN & their families. They can give advice on the getting support and what LA legal duties are etc. Some have people specialising in advocacy that will attend LA/school meetings with the parent.

Which UK nation are you in? The rules and pathways are different in all of them, so you need to know this before you start.

Also good on your mum for trying to get supoort for DB - it's not easy!

If you don't get many responses here, I would start a thread on the SEN section of MN. That's got lots of really knowledgeable posters on there.

This is very outing of the service and the counsellor op just so you know you've made it completely identifiable what service and worker you're referring to here. I would ask for removal of this comment.

In relation to your issue, Im a bit torn, i think it kind of depends on the conversation and how your db was engaging. A service like the one you're referring to is voluntary so if your dB isn't seeing merit in it or understand why he's there and can't identify what he wants to work on then that is fair for a counsellor to address that. I am also wondering about the wording on the referral form and how that's been explained as often when referrals are made to these types of services the referring agent doesn't fully understand the work that's delivered there so referrals over attendance or adhd etc would be inappropriate for that particular service UNLESS your brother is confirming that there is anxiety there. It's not a counsellors job to make someone identify as having issues if the person themselves doesn't identify as having issues if that makes sense? So without knowing the details of the conversation that happened I'm wondering if this is actually what was meant and it's got lost in translation.

At the same time I would also be asking for further details on the counsellors qualifications and how long trained etc.

I would also say that there are some valid concerns around misdiagnosis of adhd or other nd traits especially in light of the amount of questionable private diagnoses now and the amount of information on social media now. We know this is an issue that exists and at the same time that does not negate the fact that people with adhd exist. So I can to an extent share their concerns around the recent explosion of adhd diagnosis but I still recognise that lots of people with adhd exist. I wonder if that's again just been miscommunicated or worded badly.

I think it's important ultimately to think about whether or not your dB wants counselling in the first instance. And if they do then you could ask for another worker if that one wasn't a good fit.

Thank you we are West midlands, I am going through all the assessments ect myself with my own child who is only 18 months younger than my brother. However I do not seem to have hit as many toad blocks on our journey, my daughter and brother attend different schools and I think this has made a big difference.

My brother is not the same child in school as he is at home, he doesn't want to be 'different' however at home he can often be awful to our mom, sometimes his dad but my mom is the main target.
He seems to have to voice things out so often walks around the house ranting very loudly to himself. He will get mad if my mom isn't successful waking him by the time he wants to ve woken as he cant do rushing in the mornings (my mom goes into him multiple times). Has often sobbed before school specially on days he has pe. When it was did he was so so anxious but went in, however did call me to pick him up because he had got worked up as classes had merged and ge didn't know what teachers he was going to have. He had to call me as my mom was at work, and I started work later in the day.
Erm when he was younger he had speech delay and did have speech therapy, he doesn't like being questioned. So an example the day I picked him up I simply said 'whats going on mate' and obviously my mom asked him when she got home and he absolutely kicked off with her for interrogating him. She was literally trying to find out what the problem was to try and solve it. He is scared of everything, noise, school, animals,detention, teachers, shouting... the list is endless literally scared of life!
Year 9 mom still has to drop him off to school and pick him up.

I am not qualified to diagnose neurodiverse, however my daughter is on the pathway and her school are convinced she has ASD and treat her as such with interventions, pupil passport early pass, movement card, time out pass and also CAT team and educational pscholohist........... so my experience from my daughter and how my brother acts, I basically say if my daughter is neurodiverse then he definitely is

If I remember correctly she was referred to this place after going to the gp, who referred to a service, who then referred my brother to here after an initial assessment

From this update op, it sounds like there are clear issues for him trying to mask in school, release that at home and ASD makes a lot of sense. However, if that's the case counselling isn't necessarily going to resolve any of those issues as what's needed is practical support in school a completed asd assessment and a behaviour management plan of some description to support him and help his family to support him. I'm questioning what a few weeks of free counselling is realistically going to offer him when none of the other supports are in place. Often these types of services also only have funding to allow x number of sessions per individual, so it is important to gatekeep to an extent to make sure someone doesn't 'use up' sessions at the 'wrong ' time when they can't actually get the benefit or properly engage, and then not be able to access that resource when they are ready and the time is right for them. This could possibly also have been a factor.

I didnt realise it was outing as took out the location and name of the organisation 🤦‍♀️. My mom went with a folder it had a copy of his dyslexia diagnosis and the letter from the nurse the school bought in to assess ADHD traits, however she advised school anxiety. This was printed on NHS headed paper. My mom isn't trying to obtain any particular diagnosis, it is the school who bought in this person and my mom thought she was being helpful in giving this to the councillor.

It seemed that the councillor just saw assessed for ADHD traits and went on a rant, completely ignoring the fact that 1. My mom isn't saying she believes he has ADHD, she was showing the councellor the reason they are there is because another professional identified he quite possibly has school anxiety. So for him to go on about his daughter in law being just like my mom and trying to label her kid, its like he literally didnt want to listen to why she was actually there.
And yes it is voluntary, no my brother isn't really open to being 'identified' as anything.... and to be honest my mom isn't pushing for him to be identified with anything particularly. However, his stress/ meltdowns whatever you want to call them before school daily are causing her to be late for work. The way he treats and talks to her is causing immense stress and strain within her whole household. I would be here all day if I listed everything tbh. So if my brother refuses counselling then no he cant and won't be forced shes not asking a councellor to diagnose anything, she is hoping and praying for her own sanity that him talking to soneone will help him find ways to deal with things in a better way than screaming, shouting and lying on his bed in the featoll position before school crying.

So I basically think in this instance it was bad conduct for him to go on a rant about ADHD....... because he had been told we are here AFTER the SCHOOL got soneone in to assess for traits, but she is here to get him help for the school anxiety that HAS been identified. He just seemed quite judgemental to be honest, with the YOU (to my mom) are just like my daughter in law. I dont think it is fair to say that to someone you dont even know, who is coming to you for help. And it has massively knocked my mom's confidence and she now feels that her and her family will never get help, and this is just life now.

I hope this makes sense and doesnt sound rude as that is not my intention

Your reply does make sense, due to the 'masking ' it was literally end of year 8 that school actually said oh we actually see some things now and did the ASD referral and he does have an early pass now.

I think what it is my mom is struggling with him ngl, so for her to have a 'diagnosis' on NHS headed paper stating school anxiety and it recommending counselling for that. My mom was just really hoping for any/some support for something. The wait list in our area for ASD assessment is averaging on 27 months, so actually not very likely he will be assessed before he finishes school.

There is the right to choose option, however its quite difficult because school ha e saw 'some' signs. One when a teacher said oh you can go in the class if you want ( he was a couple of minutes early) for him to say no its still 2 minutes. My mom having to physically bring him into the office as he is refusing to go in unless 'something' is done about a particular lesson. So she has to wait until SENDCO is available before she can leave him and go to work. So basically im not even sure his school ha e enough 'evidence' to properly support a right to choose assessment, as researching right to choose i can literay only find 1 provider who does assessments face to face, the rest are all online assessments, and the face to face right to choose provider is 4 hours drive away.

I hope this makes sense

The problem is - if DB sees no reason to engage, there is little counsellor will help with, and he may not engage with assessment either. Did your mum have any support from Early Help? She can self refer.

Hi I did advise her to self referral to early help as they were great with me and really dis liase with school alongside me.
So she has done that now, it took 5 months from referral to them contacting me, I made her aware there will ne a wait but that they are really helpful.

I just think I was so cross when my mom told me, as the councellor had t spent any time with my brother or even tried to councel him, before going into a rant about something irrelevant to the reason my mom bought my brother there.
The coincellor didnt know if my brother would engage or not at this point. This was before my brother even went into the room for the session.

Any guidance from a professional would always be well received by my mom, whatever that may be. She really does just want some support.
If my brother point blank refused then she wouldn't force him, she is just hoping he will with soneone if that makes sense.......