Surely I’m not expected legally to have this tenant in my property forevermore??

[Saywhetw]

Tenant been in property since 2017. I need to sell. Solicitor telling me we can’t used section 21 as I didn’t provide the right information at the time of the tenancy and also didn’t carry out electrical report or gas safety checks. This was oversight on our part. We can’t seem to use section 8 as tenant paid rent and isn’t a nuisance or anything but she literally won’t move even though we’ve asked repeatedly she just says she hadn’t got anywhere to go. It doesn’t seem right there’s no way out of this?? Solicitor said best they can do is write a letter asking her to vacate. I will get a second opinion tomorrow but really panicking now

This used to be the norm until about 30 years ago - it’s only the advent of ASTs which has more recently left tenants with less security. There are still tenants out there with Regulated and Assured tenancies and the landlord can only really evict them if they don’t pay rent or if they commit ASB.

If tenant doesn’t want to or can’t buy, some landlords are looking for a property with a tenant, your best bet is to sell to one.

You can’t if the gas safety is one of those mistakes.

And we’re moving back to this situation next year when the RRB comes into effect.

Would they want one where an S21 can't be issued because of the current landlord not having gas and electric certificates in place?

I could imagine it possibly happening with a much reduced price, but then HMRC would be all over it at Capital Gains time. They pay attention to underselling. Also this would bring the sitting tenant to their attention. One can only assume the OP has been declaring the rental income on this property.

I know. I’m saying that a section 21 (while not applicable in the scenario anyway) is for when in a contract. When the contract is ended, she can give them notice notice, no section 21 or section 8 etc needed.

If the tenant stopped paying rent, then OP could Section 8 her and evict her that way. Section 8 is quicker than a Section 21. @Saywhetw why is solicitor telling you you cannot use Section 8? If you are planning on selling, Section 8 is the way to go. You need to use an Eviction Specialist. Mark Dawson of AST Assist is highly recommended. I obviously do not condone you not having carried out the legally required safety checks on the property though.

So when they get banned, how will anyone ever got a tenant to leave? For example if they sell up, or want to move in themselves?

Why would she be able to issue a section 8? The tenant is a good tenant paying rent, the only bad guy here is the shitty landlord

They will still be able to do this if I've read the RRB correctly:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guide-to-the-renters-rights-act/guide-to-the-renters-rights-act

Wait for the implementation of the RRA and you will be able to serve notice if you want to sell. Oddly the new Act gives less protection to tenants in some circumstances, this being one of them.

I got an electrical report done in prep for potentially renting which was expensive but flagged up a massive list of things to fix (in a 20 yr old house), which even the electricians themselves said were not considered dangerous but the current regulations are a really high bar to pass. Also with the current fire regulations. It's all important but feels quite excessive and that along with being taxed so much on income which isn't even profit (since you don't offset the mortgage).

I've rented many times and been a landlord myself in the past but I was put off this time by all the current regulations and costs. It's not worth it. I just wanted to break even, but can't even do that. My property is currently sat empty but would have been a nice home to someone.

Not just one “oversight” since safety checks are supposed to be made regularly. Quite a few “oversights” when you start to add them up.

I got caught this way but on the tenant end of things as my AST had been incorrectly served and I ended up with a periodic tenancy.

Had years of stress with flat being sold to successive landlords who wanted me out but as a single parent on a low income I couldn’t afford to rent in the area as market prices had shot up.
I needed to stay in the area due to child’s SEN school so applied for local authority housing and was advised they would house as high priority but not to leave without a court order as to do so would mean I’d rendered myself deliberately homeless and they’d be under no obligation to house me.
The last landlord offered me a large amount of money to leave but it wasn’t enough to buy a flat with a mortgage I’d be able to afford, I really did look in to it and explored many avenues, it just wasn’t doable bearing in mind my restricted ability to earn due to child care issues. It was very frustrating.
no one chooses these situations and I’ve sympathies on both sides and can really understand why people are wary of renting out their properties as it’s always a risk you’ll end up with a tenant that can’t just up and leave through no fault of their own (I certainly didn’t choose to be a single parent raising a disabled kid on a low income and wasn’t that when I moved in. Was only supposed to be for a year. but them’s the breaks and I got on with it to the best of my ability)
assuming you have explored all legal avenues and the law changes won’t make any difference that makes it worth hanging on for (it’s going to make everything harder for LL’s as I understand it), your best bet maybe to try and find out if tenant is willing to be paid off. They are either in a situation like I was and or they might be persuaded to go if they were offered enough for a deposit but that really depends on their situation. Generally the advice is not to leave a periodic tenancy where a S21 is invalidated as it’s virtually a sitting tenancy to all intents and purposes.

also tread very carefully as the last thing you want is to be accused of harassment.

there’s a really good tenancy law book called Quiet Enjoyment although it will be out of date soon. Library might have it.
You royally messed up on this. It happens. People make mistakes. My initial AST mess up was created by a huge corporate landlord so it’s not just an ‘amateur’ landlord issue.

Use ground 1, but if notice was not served prior to the commencement of the tenancy that the ll may need the property returned to them to live in, possession becomes at the discretion of the court. It will depend on all of the facts and how compelling your need is, as opposed to the tenants interest.

I believe you can apply for a possession order through court but this may change with the new renters rights act coming in. Get another solicitor!

On a 20 year old home there should not have been any C1s flagged up. Changing your electrician might be a good idea. Some of them treat it as a money making scheme and flag up things that are not up to 2024 /25 code but are perfectly safe and should pass.

Letting your house is not a "good deed" - OP is running a business and needs to be professional and compliant with basic legal requirements. If you take people's money you must follow the minimum safety legislation required, protect deposits deal with major repairs etc

But the problem Op has - is if you break the law (multiple times) it is then very difficult to then get the law to help you. By all accounts the tenant has followed their obligations but the landlord has not. You really need a specialist eviction company but even then it will take time. It's possible that the landlord could end up owing the tenant money

Op could have remedied the breaches and served a new s21.

Yes you probably can. In Trecarrell House Limited v Rouncefield [2020] EWCA Civ 760, the Court of Appeal held that a section 21 notice was valid where a gas safety certificate that should have been provided before the tenant went in to occupation but wasn’t, was provided prior to service of the notice. This means that it is possible for all gas safety certificates to be provided ‘late’ so long as provided before service of a section 21 notice. What is as yet not clear is the effect of failing to have a valid gas safety certificate at the commencement of the tenancy and where that failing can later be ‘redeemed’, or whether provision of a gas safety certificate at the commencement of a ‘replacement’ tenancy would correct the position.

Getting legal advice from a solicitor or legal professional who is fully conversant with the law in this area might help . . .

Why so nasty? None of us know the OP's circumstances but I don't really understand the need to laugh about it. In my opinion, that is really unkind.

You can still sell the property with a tenant in situ though.

@BadgernTheGarden rental properties are expensive for tenants because it’s a well known money making scheme. Many landlords live off the income of rentals as opposed to having a job themselves. That’s why properties are expensive, not because it’s a charitable cause.

That sounds so stressful OP. The government has changed the rules to delay people people needing social housing. They say it's about tenants rights but really it's about saving the government money. And landlords are an easy target.

I suggest you ring a few estate agents that have property management services and see if they have any ideas.

Do you know anyone with a place she could move to with the correct paperwork in place. Could you find somewhere with cheaper rent and offer to pay the first couple of months for her if she leaves quickly so you can sell?

There will be a way out, just might cost a bit.

I'm sure you didn't mean to breach the rules, it was very different in 2017 and rental properties have so many more safeguards in place than what is required for ones own home - which makes it easier to miss things.

Good luck.