Creepy men in media/public eye

[ChampagneLassie]

A anecdote but I wonder how common a version of this is. That we minimise men’s behaviour and blame ourselves. Watching BBC news just now I saw a man who was once inappropriate to me. He’s BBC staff. At time I just accepted the behaviour as one of those things. But in light of many things from Epstein to Greg Wallace I feel the climate is very different. To be clear I was entertaining this man to improve my own opportunities at BBC and I thought he mistook my professional warmth/generosity for sexual interest. We were having dinner and He kept putting his hand on my leg, leaning too close. I knew he was married with his and I’d told him about my partner. He made clear he was looking to have done fun and I made clear I wasn’t. But I felt obliged to tolerate the gentle petting as part of keeping him sweet. I also felt guilty (?) that perhaps I’d led him on and he was only meeting me thinking I fancied him. Watching him now I feel utterly disgusted and wonder how much he might have got away with. Thoughts?

What’s to be gained by rehashing this after so many years? You were ‘entertaining this man to improve your opportunities’ yet somehow think he was in the wrong in the scenario you’ve described 🙄

I think that's a bit harsh. I think OP is right to reflect on this situation. Fwiw I find it very creepy that it seems he continued with the touchy feely after you made clear you weren't looking for anything sexual.

I would say he abused his power over you by doing that. Many women may not have the direct skills or confidence in that situation to tell him to do one. It's what creeps like that feed off. I call it abuse.

....and I'm sorry that happened to you

Thanks @Fasterthanwitches and yes @HedwigEliza i was entraining him in the way that many people entertain people in a business networking capacity in many areas of business. I don’t think it is acceptable that men take advantage of a power play. I could have been blunter and more direct and he had the potential to ensure I never got on air again. As it was I kept him sweet enough. But the whole thing feels a bit ewh. And like I say I wonder how much more he’s got away with. And how much men in general abuse their positions.

You can’t have it both ways.

It’s intensely irritating that you want to paint yourself as a victim in this situation, when you weren’t. You ‘kept him sweet’ as you phrase it - and admit you could have been blunter and more direct in rebuffing him. So why didn’t you? Because you didn’t have the guts? Because you thought it was easier to go along to get along? Plenty of women don’t accept that, and speak out at the time instead of whining about it years later. You make it harder for women to be taken seriously - you were willing to go along with it when it benefited you, so why complain now? You had a choice, so own it. Don’t absolve yourself of any responsibility.

Jesus wept.

Was it GL? He was notorious for doing things like that.

🙄 or he could have been respectful and just kept his hands to himself?

How about this prick take FULL responsibility for his behaviour?

Many, many women are blindsided into accepting this shit for fear of rocking the boat. For fear of being seen as uptight/overreacting/making a mountain put of a molehill etc, etc. It's how these men get away with it for YEARS. You are aware of fight, flight or freeze responses to abuse right? Sounds to me like OP froze in the situation for fear of repercussions to her career, or worse - upsetting the moron and the behaviour escalating. Keep sweet, buy time and escape is a natural defense mechanism in case anger or rejection turns to force. Op is already blaming herself, by reflecting on this now, can you not see that? Yes, experience and extreme bravery can play a part in standing up to this sort of behaviour in the moment, but blame the victim for reacting in a passive, possibly 'least worst' way, a way that's been entrenched into women for generations, before blaming the abuser? No thanks.

Oh yeah?

I’ve had this happen to me at work events where I was entertaining clients and/or colleagues. What are you expecting, that women should jump up shouting and dash a glass of wine in a man’s face like something out of a fifties movie? Every time this happened to me the men did it in public, in places or at events in which it would have been causing a massive disruption to acknowledge it in any way (eg: at a senior colleague’s birthday dinner, at a big awards event, at a restaurant at an important work social occasion for clients, and so on). I was literally in a position where I would have been making a lot of trouble for my employers in front of other senior people if I’d done anything about it. And the men knew that perfectly well, that’s why they chose those events and those moments to do it.

Thinking that women are complicit in those situations is just naive. Predatory men who do this know exactly how to do it so that you can’t react.

What have I just read on this thread?

A woman posts about a man being appropriate and the immediate response is to blame her for it?

And then we wonder why so many women and girls don't come forward to out these creepy guys....

OP I think the floodgates opened with the #MeToo movement when women started sharing stories and feeling like they would be more likely to be listened and believed.

So many famous/powerful men used their privilege position to get away with inappropriate behaviour, sometimes with the full knowledge of those around them because money and power always seemed to be more important than the truth and women and girls' welfare. Often these women feared losing their job and being blacklisted in their industry if they kicked up a fuss.

Thankfully you can see that things are changing.

Networking in business is often key to better job opportunities. Men do it all the time and professional women should not have to deal with men thinking that networking is a green light to sexual advances.

I rarely say that in these thread but frankly @HedwigEliza you are a disgrace and it is women-blaming, dinosaur like you who enable creeps to flourish.

David Walliams.

not that famous @Netcurtainnelly he’s a BBC news producer/reporter. I can’t believe @HedwigEliza take on it. Honestly in the moment I felt extremely uncomfortable and unsure what to do. I went along with it because I was in PR and my career literally depended upon keeping people like him sweet. When I was younger and in less important jobs I tolerated similar behaviour from men, because I didn’t know it was wrong. My parents never discussed such things or taught me. I really didn’t know. And to be honest that is more my point how much we all have put up with. The line for what is considered inappropriate has raised considerably.

Ooh the more I’m thinking about it I’m becoming really enraged by @HedwigEliza it’s judgements like yours that literally stop people speaking up. No doubt had you been my boss and I told you the next day you’d have asked what I was wearing/how many drinks I’d had, was I being flirtatious?

Why ‘enraged’ by me? I’m not the one who wants to paint myself as a blameless victim at the same time as admitting I wanted to advance in my career and didn’t have the guts to tell it to the man straight? It’s ridiculous to be agonising over this years later anyway.

I am a blameless victim. The moment I made clear to that man I wasn’t interested, which was as soon as he touched me. I am not to blame for him either misreading situation or what I now think more likely taking advantage of situation.

He chose to sexually harass her. She didn’t put her hand on his leg, she didn’t lean in to him, and she told him she wasn’t interested.

What are you imagining, which makes this her fault?

Well said

There are finally stories this week about a high profile British ‘comedian’ etc and his behaviour. They have been swirling for years (literally a decade to my knowledge). It takes a lot of courage to come forward and be heard:

What on earth is the point of writing GL when you mean Gary Lineker?

And what’s the point of quoting me to say this other than to be a caufb?

(Complete and utter fucking bitch?)

Who is it?

@Ghhbiuj hes still married and has kids I don’t think it would be fair for them to read this on here. Also I think I’m quite identifiable.