To think the UK’s obsession with “humility” actually holds talented people back?

[SubtleAmbitionJay]

We’re taught to play small, to be “grateful”, “humble” and never talk about what we’re good at. Meanwhile, louder people with half the skill often rise faster.

AIBU to think we confuse modesty with mediocrity and it’s hurting those who actually deliver?

Yes, it really does. And certainly never try and aim for anything truly aspirational and outstanding.
I grew up in Jamaica and it perplexes Jamaicans. I once saw an interview where Usain Bolt commented that only in the UK was it considered 'show off' to mention that he was the fastest man in the world, everywhere else it was just a true fact 😂

Not necessarily.

I think lack of drive, help and encouragement is what holds some talented people back.

If you're driven and ambitious you'll get further than someone who isn't, no matter how talented.

On the contrary, I think humility is rare and should be encouraged.

OP are you that single issue poster who name changes every few months and makes an identical post on this topic? IIRC you were doing a grad scheme at EY or similar and couldn't figure out why none of your colleagues liked you bragging about owning a luxury flat or something?

I think cream generally rises to the top regardless. No one likes a show off. We are more humble here and don’t tend to shout about our achievements in general because it’s deemed as crass.

I don’t think that holds people back though. If you apply for a job that’s your chance to sell yourself and to big yourself up. That’s the one time it’s completely appropriate to ‘show off’ your skills.

No, not me - just someone who’s noticed how uncomfortable people here get when confidence is mentioned. You don’t need to invent a backstory to have an opinion on humility.

Humility doesn’t hold people back

humility isn’t the same as a lack of confidence

being a braggart would limit your relationships

being an arrogant twat who thinks themselves better than others because they are too ignorant to recognise the element of luck in life - yip people are really going to despise you

On the contrary, in my experience.

The most successful, driven and intelligent people I know don't feel the need to bang on about their abilities or experiences, because they're secure in themselves.

Those who do go on tend to be decidedly mediocre.

just someone who’s noticed how uncomfortable people here get when confidence is mentioned
Some call it confidence, other call it arrogance.

There’s nothing wrong with doing well and being the best.

No need to brag about it.

I'm foreign. Having lived here for years, I don't think British people are generally particularly humble. This place has its fair share of braggarts, poseurs and flash bastards.

Self-deprecation is a common trait here but that is a form of egocentricity and attention-seeking, and nothing to do with humility.

Yes, 100% this! Finally, someone has said it out loud. 👏👏

I think it's an interesting thing to ponder, and I have pondered it alot. Striking the right balance is quite the minefield and there's a slightly paradoxical element to it.

For example:

"Ooh, you're really good at x,y,z. You should promote that, do more with it, let your talent shine brightly.. "

"Oh Gosh, do you think so? I really don't think so, but thank you"

"Fair enough, your loss, you must have very low self-esteem, perhaps you should work on that"

Sometime later:

"Have you seen Mistress doing x,y,z all over the place and bigging herself up? Honestly, she's going to come a cropper, someone will take her down a peg or two if she's not careful"

To Mistress herself:

"Glad to see you giving x,y,z a try, didn't think you were going to take it that far, are you sure it's a good idea? Might want to scale it back / reframe it"

Mistress: 😳 "I have no idea how to play this game". (Backtracks and shoves what little confidence she had built firmly back under humility bushel).

Don't know if people will get what I'm getting at, but this mirrors some of my experience.

I think it is mainly girls and women who are are like this. DD1 started proper full time work as a scientist just over a year ago and is shocked by how over confident her young male colleagues are.

Fellow-foreigner, lived longterm in different parts of England. I agree. I think it’s as much performative as anything, and agree that self-deprecation is a type of mutually-agreed cultural performance, rather than anything that indicates a genuine humility (whether or not you think of humility as a virtue. I’m not sure I do).

It’s gendered, too. I was fascinated when I first joined a baby/toddler group in a village. The other women’s conversation was 80% self-deprecation (‘Oh, I just had another biscuit — look at the size of me!) followed by restorative response from listeners (‘You’re TINY! My arm wouldn’t fit down the leg of your jeans!’) and so on. I noticed people got quite cross that I didn’t rush to assure them that they weren’t obese or dressed like a tramp, or a slummy mummy, or the other things they would accuse themselves of on a regular basis, then sit back expectantly and wait for everyone else to disagree.

A very good observation, and one that certainly mirrors my experience over 30 years of professional / corporate life. Those same people are now also, in my experience, much happier in retirement as well :)

British born and hate that kind of conversation about food and size from women as well. It's boring.

Are you AI then? Or a bot?

You have all the hallmarks of someone just harvesting content.

I see it all the time in my field - you have to be a doer to succeed. Many people are talented but don’t do anything about it/with it. So the people who are less talented, but do more, get things done and get the praise and achieve more. And ultimately improve in what they’re doing as they’re always doing it, and getting feedback and encouragement.

Yes, and the one who posts vaguely controversial opinions on relationship dynamics eg ‘AIBU to not date a man who earns less than 1million’

Nope, just a human with opinions, though I’m flattered you think I sound that consistent

British born and bred but I absolutely agree with those who've said that self-depreciation and humility is a performance.

Personally, I think more of our country's problems are caused by people (often men) who feel born to particular roles, being overconfident in their abilities. I think because (often working class) young people can't perform this kind of confidence and are more honest about the experience and skills they lack, they fail to rise faster. We have a very set idea about what intelligence, capability and confidence look like, even when they prove to be a sham.

I love these posts about what the "British" are like as it gives the chance to overseas Mumsnetters or those who live here but were born elsewhere to tell us how shit we all are. It's very edifying.

and "AIBU to think that people don't like it when I say DH and I don't do things 50/50, he has all the money and I do all the domestic".

Other recognisable trait of this poster/type of poster/bot is -

• replying with "just someone who’s noticed" and repeating that type of phrase over and over again
• three word user name always with a colour or bird
• lots of short repetitive responses
• or no responses at all - just drop a controversial point and piss off

Humility never held anyone back. Talent is talent, ambition is ambition, hard work is hard work. Being a big head is being a big head.

@KaleidoscopeSmile

"Oh would some Power the gift give us
To see ourselves as others see us!
It would from many a blunder free us,
And foolish notion"