To think people’s idea of what ‘a rich’ person is, is totally skewed?

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For example:

Who do you think of as rich?

When the government talk about wealthy people who do they mean?

Tax the rich. Who are ‘the rich’? Etc

It’s not only for a few years if you think they’re all comfortably affording private school fees too.

£100k is a nice salary, but it doesn’t afford a luxury lifestyle. £150k is a better salary, but in London / the South East it doesn’t go anywhere near as far as you might think if paying a mortgage and raising a family.

If you just don’t fancy believing that despite evidence to the contrary, there’s not really much else I can add.

@MidnightPatrol It’s not only for a few years if you think they’re all comfortably affording private school fees too.

I don't understand what you're saying. You've already stated that people on your salary don't have their children privately educated. So if you're children aren't being privately educated, that means you're not paying private school fees.

You can't say that your salary isn't high enough to afford private education in one post, and then in a different post, claim that after the childcare years that you're having to pay for private education for that child. It makes absolutely no sense.

You don’t seem to understand any element of what I have written really.

But childcare isn’t for only a few years. Mine are pre school age, so over £5k a month currently to the nursery. But even when they go to school, we are looking at either a wraparound nanny at £100+ a day, or before and after school club is about £60 a day for two children. Holiday cover is around £170 a day.

I suspect you don't either.

This clearly shows you do not understand how salary sacrifice works. I’ll break it down simply.

Using a salary sacrifice scheme allows HMRC approved deductions to be made to your salary pre-tax and not post-tax as other deductions are.

This means that you don’t pay tax or NI on the deducted elements, and your employer also saves NI.

Examples of items which can be included in a salary sacrifice scheme include:
Pension
Cycle to work
Electric cars
Childcare vouchers

Salary sacrifice means that the amount you sacrifice is no longer available to you as cash, i.e. if I choose to put £30k per annum in my pension scheme, this £30k will not be available for me to spend. For some people, £30k into pension as salary sacrifice would take them into a lower tax bracket; I’d still be paying 45% on the top slice.

Still waiting to hear how I can save £80k per year in tax and NI using salary sacrifice 🤣🤣🤣

@Starseeking I know how salary sacrifice works, and I'm not sure why you gave an explanation when no one asked for it.

Salary sacrifice lets someone drop from a £120k salary, or £150k salary, down to a £100k salary by putting more money into a pension, or hiring an electric car. So the person who earns £120k or £150k should not really be paying anything in the higher tax bracket at all, as they should be using salary sacrifice to avoid any higher tax.

What I said to you was, given that your salary is so whopping and colossal that it's actually not possible to drop down to a lower tax bracket by using salary sacrifice, then clearly you are an extremely wealthy person and it's absolutely bonkers to pretend otherwise.

Has it ever occurred to you that that is none of your business? Why on earth do you think you have the right to comment on, much less claim or attempt to redistribute, money that you have never earned?

@Octoberthewhatnow Has it ever occurred to you that that is none of your business?

This is an anonymous message board. If she had answered my question, that would not have provided me with anyone's personal information.

I mentioned I paid £80k in tax and NI, and you explicitly told me I could use salary sacrifice to save that amount, so I was demonstrating that clearly it can’t be 🤣🤣🤣

How much do you think the mortgages and
childcare are for these people earning £120k or £150k per year that they don’t need the actual take-home cash to pay for their living expenses??? Because you do know that if they sacrifice the money, they don’t get that to spend?

Not sure where you live, but in London, if you’ve bought a 3 bedroom semi in the last 5 years, your mortgage could be £3k per month (as mine nearly is).

Add in childcare costs of another £3k (single parent, including 1 disabled DC with specialist care) and things aren’t looking quite so comfortable.

To be a rich employee or business owner, you should be on a salary of at least £500k.

It's always going to vary - I find it interesting that our household I think counts as among the top 5 per cent nationally of income. Before I knew that, if you'd asked me how I expected someone in that bracket would live I think I'd assume kids in private school, shop at Waitrose, drive the latest cars, maybe luxury ones, go on fancy holidays, maybe have a second home.

(I'll preface this that we are in London)We live in a 4-bed terrace, drive a 15 year old banger and have never owned a new car, there was no way we could have sent even one child to a private school, shop at Tesco/Aldi and we have pretty ordinary short-haul holidays. We definitely have fewer short to medium term money worries than most people, eg we can weather groceries going up in our usual places and keep the heating on when we want to, but I expect most people would expect people like us to have a 'fancier' lifestyle than we do. But I'm aware some of our lifestyle is choice - choosing to live in London on one side, not caring about driving status symbol cars on the other.

Ah right, so the answer is you do think everyone else’s money and how they spend it is your business? Can you explain why?
And are you prepared to post your income and tax payments? After all, this is an “anonymous forum”…..

@Starseeking How much do you think the mortgages and childcare are for these people earning £120k or £150k per year that they don’t need the actual take-home cash to pay for their living expenses??? Because you do know that if they sacrifice the money, they don’t get that to spend?

Gee golly jeepers, if someone sacrifices their salary and has to live on a £100k salary instead, how could they possibly afford anything? I dunno, maybe the same way that people on average incomes afford things?

@Octoberthewhatnow Ah right, so the answer is you do think everyone else’s money and how they spend it is your business? Can you explain why?

We live in a society, so everyone's money is everyone's business. I thought that was obvious.

I remain deeply unconvinced that the wealthy on £100k salaries are actually struggling, so I would be of the opinion that tax for high earners should be increased.

Christ, are you actuality a politician, unable to answer a direct question? Post YOUR income and tax payments, plus any benefits received on here so we can all comment. And if you don’t want to, why not?
And no, living in a “society” does NOT by any stretch of the imagination make “everyone's money everyone’s business” and I do not think even a small percentage of the electorate would agree with you on that.

You do know that being on £100k after salary sacrifice does not mean you take home £100k in cash???

After tax and NI I think it would be around £5k a month net in your bank account, which I would most certainly not call rich in London.

Even less rich if that income is to support a family rather than a single individual.

@Starseeking You do know that being on £100k after salary sacrifice does not mean you take home £100k in cash???

Yes... just like if someone earns £35k, they don't take home £35k...

After tax and NI I think it would be around £5k a month net in your bank account, which I would most certainly not call rich in London.

It's closer to £6k a month, and there is no reason why that salary can't leave someone with £1 - 2k at the end of the month after all expenses, regardless of where they live.

Can you give us a breakdown of the costs of raising a family on £3,700 in London inc nursery fees, to reflect the £2k a month savings they’re also able to make.

Ok I will bite: utlities on our 5 bed house are £350 a month, council tax is £320 we spend about £200 on upkeep, £800 on groceries. Car insurance is £400 (2 teenage drivers) same again in petrol. Rail fares are £800 we are lucky we don't commute daily.

I think that leaves £1000 a month left for clothes, presents, eating out ( including 2 teens can easily be £200) extra curricular activities, car maintenance, Xmas and holidays.

Certainly not bread line but this doesn't include any child care or helping out older DCs at University.

I agree someone on £35k does not take home £35k, however what they will have is:

Personal allowance of about £13k, meaning they don’t pay any tax on the first £13k they earn.

20% tax on £22k, which is £4.4k tax across the whole year.

Child benefit if they have children, depending on the number of children they have, this could add another £10k tax free.

Universal credit and housing benefit; I don’t know the ins and outs of this system, but I understand (from MN!) that people can claim additional income in some way, and will be entitled to varying amounts depending on their income level.

I used to work in social housing and the vast majority of people living in these homes received housing benefit. On average, rent on these homes was at about £200 per week, many of them located in zone 1 and 2 in London. I couldn’t afford to live in those areas.

i don’t begrudge any of the above for people earning £35k, as i imagine it must be extremely challenging to live on a single income of £35k.

All I’m saying is that in my view someone earning a gross salary of £150k wouldn’t be classed as rich due to the tax system and cost of living.

I don’t think anyone who pays higher rate tax thinks people who earn less have it easy, I think what they are saying is just because on paper you have a high salary that doesn’t mean you’re able to live the high life. It’s a bit shit to assume these high earners are just frittering away their money on champagne and handbags when they should be paying more tax instead because they wouldn’t miss it. And even if they are frittering their money so what? They earned it. Most people didn’t wake up one day and walk into a high paying job, and if they did, why didn’t you if it’s that easy? If there’s no point doing 100k roles as any extra money goes straight to the government then why bother? Might as well take a lower paid, less involved role.

The money you make in property to help you when you’re older is a red herring for a lot of people. Bungalows cost more than 3 bed semis in most places so your equity doesn’t help you necessarily to downsize. Yes you could sell your house in London and move to Blackpool or something but would you know anyone and would you want to do that as a pensioner? Again I’m not saying it’s easier if you only rent as it isn’t, but having modest assets like an average house doesn’t mean you are ‘rich’, you’re just maybe not totally fucked.

Rich people are people who earn/have more than you. "Tax them not me"

The only people I knew in the 90s who had it easier with children often had family and friends close by with free or reduced child care fees.
Childcare has quadrupled since my days of paying 75 a week full time nursery fees in 1993. Often it is these fees and mortgages which can make a reasonable salary seem a lot less , the figures I read on here for nursery or child minder fees are eye watering.

@the80sweregreat how did you manage £75pw in the 90s. We lived in Putney and nurseries that took babies were few and far between. In 1995 I went back to work three days a week. The nursery bill was just over £600pcm.

No family, no free hours, six months mat leave, no tax credits, and I only got part-time because my sales figures were outstanding and I brokered it on the basis of going back to work when the baby was 18 weeks. I think on 95 interest rates were high too.