To think that some people are too intelligent, skilled or capable to be humbling themselves just to beg for jobs?

[MyNattyGreyEagle]

Obviously everyone needs to work and provide for themselves but sometimes I wonder if the way we make people grovel through endless job applications, hoop-jumping and interviews for basic roles actually overlooks real talent. It feels like the people who should be leading or innovating often get stuck “proving” themselves to people less capable than them.

AIBU to think that if the system were really fair, intelligence and potential would be obvious, and you wouldn’t have to beg for a seat at the table?

What alternative are you proposing?

No. Everyone needs to prove themselves. Plus there are qualities that make you employable in addition to those you think should be instantly recognisable, for example, hard-working, reliable, good communicator, team-player, pro-active (etc).

I don’t care how intelligent/skilled/capable you are, if you thinking interviewing is below you I don’t want that attitude on my team.

What industry do you work in? This sounds highly unusual. I’ve never been made to beg in an interview and I’ve never asked someone to beg when interviewing them.

I don’t think there’s a single perfect alternative but I do think hiring could be more proportional to genuine ability and less about process theatre. Things like project-based assessments, internal development or reputation within a field often say more about someone’s capability than endless interviews do.

I’m in a role where I don’t expect I’ll ever have to apply for a job again if I want to stay in the same sector. I’ll get another job by knowing the contacts in my field at other firms, and I’m regularly approached with other opportunities. My current job was created for me when I approached the company and said I wanted to work there and I had a sense check non competitive interview. It’s likely I’ll find my new job in a similar way (albeit I might need to articulate a business case for why they should create that role).

So in my experience, and in my sector, once you have established you are intelligent, skilled and capable then there is no grovelling for jobs.

If you change your mindset a bit it could help? Going to an interview is not ‘grovelling’. You are interviewing them as much as the other way round.

I don’t mean literal begging, more the drawn-out process so many people go through now. Multiple interviews, personality tests, “homework” tasks and long silences in between. It’s less about the job itself and more about how much endurance people are expected to show just to be considered.

Isn’t it just indicative of a difficult jobs market/high unemployment? They can make you jump though hoops when there’s 100 applicants for every job

I do agree that mindset matters. I just think the balance has tipped too far the other way in many places. Even confident, capable people who do approach interviews as a two-way process can end up feeling like they’re jumping through endless hoops for roles that don’t warrant it. It’s not about attitude so much as how unnecessarily performative the process has become.

My old boss is interviewing for a job at the moment, entry level. Last time they had 10 applications, this time 300 and about 250 of them were unreadable AI slop.

If they're really smart then they can easily be self-employed or entrepreneurs.

Yes, that’s definitely part of it. But there’s a difference between selectivity and spectacle, and some hiring processes have crossed into the latter.

When there’s one job and 100 applicants, employers hold the power.

. The jobs market is tough currently but I understand why employers want multiple stages. With employment legislation changing it’s going to get even more in depth with even more hoops to jump through. Unintended consequences.

I’m pretty senior in my profession, I’ve never had more than a two interview process, the first a technical/knowledge & skills based and the second for “fit” and maybe a presentation. I take myself out of the “five interviews, psychometric testing and an assessment centre” processes because really if they don’t know from two meetings, I don’t want to work there.

In saying that, I’ve never begged for a job in my life, I view the interview as a two way process and have ended interviews early when it was clear we were misaligned. I’m very privileged to be in a place in my career where I can be choosy, I totally disagree with multi stage performative recruitment processes.

I agree OP 5+ stage process is ridiculous.

The recent thread where an OP went through multiple interviews to be offered a salary of 27k for a newly qualified solicitor was eye opening. Completely mental exercise on both the firm's side and the applicants. I've worked in private practice and charity sector law for years and can't imagine any of my previous organisations having the time for any such nonsense.

I also suspect that there are people making lots of money out of the AI software and complicated interview processes atm.

I got a job this year and I’m in no doubt that multiple people at the company I worked at spent many meetings over countless hours coming up with the process they landed on. It keeps them busy and in jobs I guess(?)

Honest to God the times I have done best during interviews was when I just went along for the sake of it and really didn’t give a shite about the outcome!

The times when I drove myself to distraction because I really wanted the position and jumped through all of the hoops, I failed miserably!

The qualities in candidates that employers are seeking now are so unrealistic in proportion to the salaries offered, that it is best to treat the process as one big tactical game! IMHO, anyone who takes it all too seriously and drinks the kool aid is doomed!

Totally this^^

Ds’s job was fairly insane. Testing, tech interview, HR interview, senior interview, 4 month internship. In his case he got suspicious if someone offered him a job after one interview, he’s not used to it..,

It is gruelling and dehumanising.

Hello Fergie.

Never mind 5 interviews - DS’s ‘interview’ was a 5 month (very) low paid internship - 3 interns, 1 job at the end.