AIBU Income Tax rise.

[H202too]

To be panicking about income tax rise.

Things are tight and to loae even £30-60 a month will be difficult.

I know people are talking about the mansion tax being a no go. But I would prefer this than taxing the workers as per usual.
The tax free rate should be put up. What a mess.

I think it’s naive to think these anticipated tax rises will actually improve public services. Public services like the NHS need massive reform and even if they were to get more money, it’s like using a teaspoon to bail water out of a sinking ship.

@anniegun the state pension age has changed for young people & will likely move out further.

Pensioners pay taxes. they use their disposable income to buy goods and services. they use public transport out of work hours to make it stay sustainable. they volunteer to do things in their community for free.

None of this changes the fact as a group they are taking more out than they paid in & because of our demographic changes the pyramid scheme isn't working.

Because they’ve spent 30+ years paying a mortgage! Mortgage free is the only buffer most elderly have against the inability to earn money.

If you want to tax wealthier pensioners then free prescriptions and bus passes should be means tested.
And everyone should pay NI until they reach state pension age as they do in France.
Also everyone should complete a tax return every year then those that are not declaring side hustles may think twice when they sign to say this is an accurate assessment of their income.

I will only pay more taxes to support public services when I see root and branch reform of things like the NHS. more and more money, tipped into a black hole with almost zero accountability. spend half a day in a hospital and you will see how much time effort and money is wasted on tasks that no business would allow to happen.

I am not emptying my pockets so that some 19 year old with "mental health issues" can stay at home all day on their fecking play station or whatever it is. I am not emptying my pockets whilst foreign investors and companies buy up huge swathes of property just as an investment with no letting intentions and paying minimal tax.

so many things arent working in this country because too many politicians shy away from making difficult radical choices and spend their time edge tinkering.

cut the VAT relief rate on businesses from 90K to 15k so all businesses except micro and start ups pay.

stop furnished holiday lets claiming business rates meaning they pay zero in tax and make them all pay double council tax.

stop the sale of council and social housing with immediate effect. means test those in social housing and give a year to move out if above a certain level.

road tax on all vehicles including electric, motorbikes and cyclists. you use the roads you pay for them.

Free prescriptions for over 67s only not 60.

Loads more radical ideas but not one party has the balls. and therein is the REAL problem.

@TakeMeDancing

"Many worked in basic low paid jobs, afforded no access to employers pensions and even if they were aware of private pension schemes were too busy trying to put food on the table to even consider this an option."

This is @N96 view on pensioners 🤷🏻‍♀️

Don’t forget state pensions were only properly introduced in 1946 with the 65/60 retirement age. Before that it was 70 but only for 30 or so years and then there was no state pension

what was introduced in 1946 is no longer tenable - we are talking a very small number of people who have benefitted from it.

the big cost is the public sector final salary pensions with an early retirement age. I know someone who has a final salary post office pension from 30 years ago when they retired at 50. There’s no way that was ever going to be tenable.

It is the work of an instant to cut services to the bone. We had 14 years of cuts.

It takes much longer to repair the damage done.

1. Labour is best placed to repair the damage.
2. Any other party promising better is lying.
3. It takes time to restore services.
4. Things didn't get better in 1997, it took till about 2000/2001 before we saw a difference.
5. Taxes pay for health, education, defence, roads, rail, the justice system, policing, the fire service, pensions, child benefit and many other things.
6. If you don't like paying tax then don't complain that the services are terrible.

Because they’ve spent 30+ years paying a mortgage! Mortgage free is the only buffer most elderly have against the inability to earn money.

Many younger people would love that buffet in retirement. Many more will be renting or paying a lot more for longer due to interest rates & housing costs vs salaries.

What I don't understand is why they don't do something about the uber high earners? About 20,000 people in the UK earn over a million pounds a year. Why not just slap an extremely high tax on earnings over 500k, for example? No-one needs that much money. Perhaps I am naive, but it seems appalling when there are so many families living in poverty.

@Bruisername but you cant impose controls on that retrospectively. those were the terms and conditions we signed up to. I worked in local govt. I have a good pension that I started taking at 60. I abided by the rules set, it wasnt my fault that they are now unsustainable. I pay tax on my business income. I go private whenever I can afford to, to take pressure off the NHS. but I want to see RADICAL. thats what I thought labour would do. take a fresh look but no, they just think more money in is the answer and really it isnt.

But @MyrtleLion we are in a position that these proposed income taxes won't improve services. The triple lock alone will cost 12bn a year, how much do you think 1p will raise?

The problem with this for me is:

• salaries have been stagnant for years but prices and taxes keep increasing
• where is the money going? the governments we have had for the past few years just squander tax payer money while key services are falling apart
• this will target as usual people on average income who already don't have any money to spare
• they are breaking their manifesto promises
• people will just have less money in their pocket so will spend even less which will affect the economy as a whole
• Unless there is a wealth tax as well, this is deeply unfair.

Frankly Reeves need to go as she is completely incompetent and will simply be back for more money at the next budget.

I don’t disagree - but the whole system needs reform going forward. And pensioners with a good pension need to accept they’ll pay tax on it

It would raise barely anything, because there are so few of them.

And - they’re likely to be highly mobile, so will just
move elsewhere if the tax regime becomes too punitive.

More than not raising tax at all.

I have a good pension that I started taking at 60. I abided by the rules set, it wasnt my fault that they are now unsustainable.

Of course it wasn't your fault but many don't even recognise how things have changed. And everybody should have to pay more to improve things.

Because they are the internationally mobile and you don’t want to start a drain

ultimately the mega rich arrange their affairs so they take no income and therefore pay no tax. But you want them here spending and employing people

Your naive.

They’ve worked for that money and paid taxes asked of them. Who are you to take it off them?

You will of course have to pay it regardless
I have spent months in hospital this year and can see how they are struggling

I really like this way of looking at it

They pay tax on dividend income and capital gains, as the tax system requires them to.

Oh @ChardonnaysBeastlyCat you are naughty!

No, seriously, people conveniently forget to calculate things properly. Most of the people I know (teachers, doctors, associates (lawyers)) are net receivers, not net contributors to the UK tax coffers - all of them have a couple of children in a state school (£18K-£23K pp to the taxpayer), use the NHS, rely on policing and they moan about 'I pay my taxes'. None of them even cover the cost of their children state schooling via taxes - and doctors are not wealth-creators. But the most laughable 'contributors' are East European arrivals, starting in 2004 - 'I pay taxes'. Aha, right. All live in social housing, 3 children per family in state schools, NHS, the whole shebang - and they have the gall to be anti-migrant on the account of them 'not contributing, unlike us' - you could not make it up, seriously.

@MyrtleLion but why do you think services are going to improve? We have more children in poverty than ever.