AIBU Income Tax rise.

[H202too]

To be panicking about income tax rise.

Things are tight and to loae even £30-60 a month will be difficult.

I know people are talking about the mansion tax being a no go. But I would prefer this than taxing the workers as per usual.
The tax free rate should be put up. What a mess.

Yes you are naive HTH

the big cost is the public sector final salary pensions with an early retirement age. I know someone who has a final salary post office pension from 30 years ago when they retired at 50.

Public sector final (now career average) pensions are based on the number of years you served in the relevant part of the public sector. So if someone works for 30 years at a certain salary and retires at 55, they will get the same as someone in the same job who works for 30 years and retires at 67.

Plus not sure about 30 years ago, but now you can't draw down any pension until at least 55 so unless it was an ill health issue I'm not sure how the person you know managed that?

@Motheranddaughter they are struggling not because of a lack of money but because they are just so inefficient. no business could run like the nhs does. of course I pay my taxes, every last penny. but when is someone going to actually look at the 80 year old health care model we are currently working with and say its not actually working is it and we need to put something different in place.

Regardless of who is in power, this is just a prime example of "Rinse and repeat"

Chancellor: We need to increases taxes to plug this deficit / fund xyz / secure abc.....

Result: Taxes increase in some shape or form, and the working people all pay more.

Next budget:

Chancellor: We need to increase taxes to plug this deficit / fund xyz / secure abc

Result: Taxes increase in some shape or form.....etc, etc.

Nothing changes. Ever. 😡

I am of the opinion that everyone should pay a bit more rather than coming back to high earners again

What I don't understand is why they don't do something about the uber high earners? About 20,000 people in the UK earn over a million pounds a year.

They are often mobile and are not on PAYE

when is someone going to actually look at the 80 year old health care model we are currently working with and say its not actually working is it and we need to put something different in place.

I agree but ten public don't have the appetite I don't think

I’m not sure either - I know things have changed but there needs to be a review of everything tbh

we need a bold government willing to look at all outgoings and make projections and changes where necessary. Can’t change the past but can focus the future

Because Labour is already pouring billions into the NHS (as an example). Three local hospitals near me have been given £1 billion each for repair and refurbishment. If will take years fro that investment to be visible as anything other than a building site.

An operation I expected to wait two years for, happened after eight months.

Renters' Rights Bill will give secure housing. Workers' Rights will give more security at work. But if you have a great job at a good company or don't live in rented accommodation, you won't notice.

I will not be happy paying a bit more until there is actual, proper reform, not edge tinkering. because otherwise its the old rinse/repeat situation we have had for probably most of my lifetime particularly with the NHS. its not some national fecking treasure. its a service that has to work and it doesnt work for most people. and not only doesnt it work it has been getting worse and worse for years.

But some of us literally don't HAVE a bit more!

The black hole is based on projections - so the 22bn they inherited had actually been lower but labour coming in changed those forecasts. Unfortunately the NI increase did nothing to help

she needs to restore confidence in the UK economy or you are right - we’re in a death loop

Fill me in. I’m a qualified tax professional working in the industry. I deal with the taxation of wealthy people day in day out. Keen to hear where wealthy aren’t paying their way!

@MyrtleLion I want things to
improve but imo we will need billions just to pay debt. We need some radical changes

look back to the 1940s. the public didnt have the appetite then for a nationally funded health service. there were huge concerns and backlashes from the industry, the public everywhere. but they were radical and bold and they came up with a model right for that time. People never have an appetite for change, ever. I dont care whether there is an appetite or not. we have to change or its rinse/repeat and quite honestly I am fed up of being rinsed by chancellor after chancellor.

@Bluegrassdfly my experience in the tax world is the wealthy can often structure their finances very differently vs someone on PAYE & therefore pay less tax than the equivalent earner on PAYE. But things may have changed.

Oh for goodness sake! "cash cow" and poor children having to pay for everything. 😂

I accept that income tax will have to go up. Maybe they can increase the tax threshold so the lowest earners don't lose out so much. One thing is for sure, if you keep raising taxes on the aspirational middle class it's going to cost the country in the long term.

Labour might as well do the right thing now, they are out at the next election on the current trajectory. Ironically this might have a tiny chance of making them electable at the next election if they can show things have improved.

Yes benefit up and wages down

It is what it is. It’ll be a bit shit to pay more when I lack confidence it will make any great difference to services (it doesn’t seem like enough) but I accept it’s likely to happen and I do think investment in public services is very important and generally offers good value for all but the very wealthiest.
I think 2% on tax and 1% reduction to NI at both 20 & 40% bands would be good to raise more money. You could plan to raise tax and reduce NI again several times over a number of years until you reach a point it’s say 32% base and 44% higher rate tax with no NI (vs 28 & 42 currently). If I could choose also widen the estates subject to inheritance tax massively with the aim of using that money to fund elder social/healthcare. It’s a massive cost and it’s a way of paying it that doesn’t cripple working families, leave some people spending bulk of their life savings on care while others pay nothing due largely to blind luck and might blunt the impact intergenerational wealth has on ability to get on the property ladder a little bit.

this gov won't do it @mummymeister look at the outcry over means testing

Things have very much changed in the last 20 or so years. Every single person working in every financial institution I have ever worked in pays via PAYE. Every investment bank pays every penny of tax due. They are paranoid about the bad PR for being caught doing anything untoward about tax.

If you’re wealthy and you live off investments, those investments are subject to divided tax and CGT. These rates are lower than income tax for various reasons. The government may well increase them in the next budget but you can’t moan at the wealthy for paying the rates decided by the government and not more.

Cgt is lower because they removed indexation allowance

and the measures applied to banks could be rolled out to other big businesses but they don’t have the appetite to do it

Certainly a partner in a law firm on millions will be a limited company.

but you can’t moan at the wealthy for paying the rates decided by the government and not more.

I'm not, I just said it's often less than the equivalent on PAYE...

But I think it's a bit of a cop-out to just say 'well all the super-rich will leave the UK' if you impose very high rates of tax over a certain amount.

I remember when it was pretty easy to be domiciled elsewhere for tax purposes, but remain living in the UK. A law was brought in that said you either had to a certain amount annually (I think it was about 50k at the time), or just be domiciled here and pay tax like everybody else. People were forced to get on board with it. Obviously they did whatever was 'cheaper' for them, but it worked.

Bluntly, beyond a certain point of income, no-one NEEDS that much. I know a number of very, very high earners, and they aren't going to start struggling if their take home pay goes from 750k a year to 500k a year. But start raising taxes for the families struggling along on 25k, and there's a problem.

The polarity in the UK is getting worse every single year, and it's not right.