Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU Income Tax rise.

627 replies

H202too · 30/10/2025 09:56

To be panicking about income tax rise.

Things are tight and to loae even £30-60 a month will be difficult.

I know people are talking about the mansion tax being a no go. But I would prefer this than taxing the workers as per usual.
The tax free rate should be put up. What a mess.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
BananaPeels · 30/10/2025 17:16

Aintnosunshinenowitsgone · 30/10/2025 17:13

I agree. You earn the right services once you’ve been here 5 years.

How do you educate the children of immigrants then if they can’t access education until they have been here 5 years?

222days · 30/10/2025 17:16

dressinggowns · 30/10/2025 16:58

@222days can I vote for you please as I am completely aligned!

And as you say we are not reinventing the wheel as other countries have similar systems.

But I said on another thread we need to really invest in the young over the old and I got called a Nazi 🤷🏻‍♀️

Ha!

I would never get involved in being a politician. Couldn’t afford the pay cut and I am a very private person. I’m someone who works on international and domestic economics, data, evidence, policy and fiscal choices and their implications and likely outcomes.

But yes - absolutely - no need to reinvent the wheel when for every significant problem in the UK there are tried and tested models that we can see around the world for what works. We don’t have to experiment or take a leap in the dark, simply copy them.

But we won’t.

Absolutely mad that people called you a Nazi for stating what is an unequivocal fact: this country will have no prospect of even maintaining current living standards let alone them rising unless there is a huge redirection of public spending from the old to the young, before we have a generation of old people that is even larger and actually impoverished. While we have one that is not, this must happen without further delay. It should have been done many years ago, but it’s not too late yet. If it happens now, then growth and rising living standards can happen and then the future generations may be able to sustain the rising numbers of elderly in the future. Unless there is quite radical change in the next few years the window to turn it around will have passed and the current generation of pensioners will be condemning not just their children to lower living standards (as they have already done) but also their grandchildren and great-grandchildren, because the doom loop will become irreversible.

Another76543 · 30/10/2025 17:17

Lucyccfc68 · 30/10/2025 17:11

Lets say you move to Dubai for 10 years, then you shouldn’t just be able to come back to the UK and use the NHS and send your kids to a state school. You won’t have contributed, so you should reap any of the benefits that the UK offers (as you are so opposed to paying your share of tax here).

The NHS and state education system are not contribution based. There are plenty of people who make use of both and have not contributed to the system.

Cyclingmummy1 · 30/10/2025 17:19

TakeMeDancing · 30/10/2025 13:03

Who’s too poor to pay into private pensions? In any case, the final salary pensions that boomers had aren’t available to anyone Gen X and younger…

I don’t buy it that Boomers don’t have pensions.

Edited

My MIL doesn't have a private pension and DM only had one for the last 10 years of her working life when she worked for the NHS.

Bankholidayworries · 30/10/2025 17:21

Another76543 · 30/10/2025 11:01

@H202too

A “mansion tax” is estimated to raise £2-3bn per year. A 1p increase in the basic rate of income tax would raise over £8bn per year, and would cost a taxpayer about £1 per day. A 1p rise in VAT would raise around £9bn.

Hitting the top few % of people never raises enough. They are also often the ones with more options and can easily leave the country. Many already are doing as they’ve simply had enough. The answer to raising any meaningful amount of tax is to tax more people.

Too many people want improved services but only if someone else pays. It’s not sustainable.

I agree with this too. At least an increase in income tax is honest. Hitting employers with the increase in NI last budget has just been a stealth tax which has increased costs on goods and services for us all.

The lack of trust in the government to actually spend the money on improving public services is the real issue though. They just haven’t given any indication that they’re competent in any way.

222days · 30/10/2025 17:22

EasternStandard · 30/10/2025 17:11

What would your top line changes be?

See my post at 16:22,

dressinggowns · 30/10/2025 17:24

@222days it figures that you wouldn't want to be a politician!

Facts are hurtful now so stating facts results in ageist accusations etc. 🙄

this country will have no prospect of even maintaining current living standards let alone them rising unless there is a huge redirection of public spending from the old to the young, before we have a generation of old people that is even larger and actually impoverished

Can we highlight this and put it at the top of every thread!

Completely agree that we have a small window to turn it around.

the current generation of pensioners will be condemning not just their children to lower living standards (as they have already done) but also their grandchildren and great-grandchildren, because the doom loop will become irreversible

It really frustrates me that people are willing to do this to their dc & gc and then have the cheek to hurl insults at people who suggest it's not right.

Allergictoironing · 30/10/2025 17:25

Viviennemary · 30/10/2025 17:11

Pip for a start and replace it with something sensible. And get rid of luxury cars on motability. Better off pensioners to pay National Insurance. Means test lower rates of carers allowance.

What would you class as "sensible" as a replacement for PIP?

Did you not read what I said about Motability cars? Or try looking up the terms? Motability cars are not supplied willy nilly to everyone in receipt of PIP. IF someone is eligible for higher rate PIP or mobility allowance (not as easy as many seem to think) then they can apply. Then the entirety of any mobility allowance is paid towards the car unless you want something better in which case you need to pay a big chunk up front as well as handing over your full allowance. So no "free" luxury cars on PIP, wish I could get ANY car with my PIP but I'm not QUITE disabled enough e.g. on a very good day I can walk 50 yards without having to take a long break & sit.

Would your means testing of carers allowance also allow for the fact that they are doing as a minimum a full time job for less money than job seekers allowance? Would you like to say what a reasonable income would be for someone to have the carers allowance cut, and would that take into consideration their own financial responsibilities e.g. children, housing costs etc?

PocketSand · 30/10/2025 17:25

@222days I would be interested to hear your view on whether you believe in work benefits to be a sensible way to proceed to address economic concerns in the long term. Do you believe the state should intervene to subsidise low wages, high housing costs, lack of after school child care etc? How does this fit in with benefits payments (apart from disability benefits) being contributory?

dressinggowns · 30/10/2025 17:26

My MIL doesn't have a private pension and DM only had one for the last 10 years of her working life when she worked for the NHS.

approx 70% of pensioners have a private pension...

THisbackwithavengeance · 30/10/2025 17:28

Those of you who think that extra taxation will result in a magically transformed NHS and super-duper Scandi style public services are seriously deluded. It will be spunked on black hole projects and squandered with little to show.

Lucyccfc68 · 30/10/2025 17:30

Another76543 · 30/10/2025 17:17

The NHS and state education system are not contribution based. There are plenty of people who make use of both and have not contributed to the system.

Yes, but the OP specifically has complained about the tax she pays (when she is capable of paying it) and wants to avoid paying it, but is still happy to use the UK’s public services.

EasternStandard · 30/10/2025 17:32

222days · 30/10/2025 17:22

See my post at 16:22,

Ok thanks. I can see you’ve given it thought. Not much to disagree with really.

Lucyccfc68 · 30/10/2025 17:33

BananaPeels · 30/10/2025 17:16

why? I have paid in for the last 25 years.

Are you suggesting someone who has just emigrated to the country should not be allowed to use any public services until they have paid a certain amount?

Let’s see how well you do in Dubai getting access to public services. You’ll be paying for private health and schools need to be paid for.

You seriously can’t see that you want to move abroad to ‘avoid’ paying tax in the UK, but would still want to benefit from our public services. What a bloody hypocrite.

BananaPeels · 30/10/2025 17:33

Lucyccfc68 · 30/10/2025 17:30

Yes, but the OP specifically has complained about the tax she pays (when she is capable of paying it) and wants to avoid paying it, but is still happy to use the UK’s public services.

If you are referring to me rather than the OP, That’s misrepresenting. If I moved to Dubai I won’t be in the Uk. I therefore won’t be using the services therefore why should i contribute to them?

If I move back I would resume paying my Uk taxes and pay for the services I use.

basically you are suggesting that anyone who chooses to work abroad should be punished when they come back? But anyone who comes to the Uk from abroad, even if they don’t earn anything, should be allowed to use any service they so please?

Cyclingmummy1 · 30/10/2025 17:33

Allergictoironing · 30/10/2025 13:21

the big cost is the public sector final salary pensions with an early retirement age. I know someone who has a final salary post office pension from 30 years ago when they retired at 50.

Public sector final (now career average) pensions are based on the number of years you served in the relevant part of the public sector. So if someone works for 30 years at a certain salary and retires at 55, they will get the same as someone in the same job who works for 30 years and retires at 67.

Plus not sure about 30 years ago, but now you can't draw down any pension until at least 55 so unless it was an ill health issue I'm not sure how the person you know managed that?

When public services were privatised in the 90s, people were offered 'golden handshakes'; I suppose it was a beefed up redundancy where part of the package was early access to their pension.

A friend of DF's retired at 52. The drawback is that after 30 years, the pension isn't worth a great deal each month.

Lucyccfc68 · 30/10/2025 17:35

BananaPeels · 30/10/2025 17:33

If you are referring to me rather than the OP, That’s misrepresenting. If I moved to Dubai I won’t be in the Uk. I therefore won’t be using the services therefore why should i contribute to them?

If I move back I would resume paying my Uk taxes and pay for the services I use.

basically you are suggesting that anyone who chooses to work abroad should be punished when they come back? But anyone who comes to the Uk from abroad, even if they don’t earn anything, should be allowed to use any service they so please?

Edited

Read her post.

She wants to move to Dubai so she doesn’t have to pay tax in the UK. It’s so hypocritical.

BananaPeels · 30/10/2025 17:37

Lucyccfc68 · 30/10/2025 17:33

Let’s see how well you do in Dubai getting access to public services. You’ll be paying for private health and schools need to be paid for.

You seriously can’t see that you want to move abroad to ‘avoid’ paying tax in the UK, but would still want to benefit from our public services. What a bloody hypocrite.

Why are you assuming I need to pay for schooling? So many assumptions here. My children are basically grown so no need for any schooling.

There is basically no tax in Dubai so paying a bit of medical won’t be a problem. Why do you think so many people are doing this now? Even my child’s school teacher about 10 years ago, upped and moved there. I know a few people whose children are looking for move there when they graduate to maximise their elderly so they can get on the housing ladder.

OldLondonDad · 30/10/2025 17:43

silverbirchjuniper · 30/10/2025 14:27

But to those saying 'very high taxes on very high earners wouldn't make a difference' - I don't understand?

Let's say you're a corporate lawyer or banker earning 2 million a year. Your earnings over a million are taxed at 80 percent - 800k for this tax. Let's say 10,000 people in the UK pay that - that's 8 BILLION to the government (and given the number of people earning over a million is double that, it's a conservative estimate).

Your remaining million pounds of income is taxed at current rates. Net, you are still taking home over half a million a year. That's PLENTY to live on.

Are you for real?

Anyone who earns £2M a year is probably going to have enough brain cells to figure out one or more of:

  • work a deal with their employer to pay them in some other structure, most likely by deferring a huge chunk of cash to a future tax year when the tax policy changes to something more appropriate (if they even have an employer vs. being the company owner/partner)
  • work less! why bother with the extra £1M when they're going to have 80% of it taken away
  • move!
  • just straight up retire!

A 45% tax rate is bad enough. 80% is absolutely absurd. It boggles my mind that some people think like this and can't think through the basics of "what would any sane person do faced with an 80% tax rate?"

I absolutely hope any increase in income tax goes across the board not just the higher earners. I'm bloody tired of paying so much.

Reminder - 10% of taxpayers pay 60% of income tax. And 1/3 pay no income tax. How is that sustainable?

Another76543 · 30/10/2025 17:58

silverbirchjuniper · 30/10/2025 14:27

But to those saying 'very high taxes on very high earners wouldn't make a difference' - I don't understand?

Let's say you're a corporate lawyer or banker earning 2 million a year. Your earnings over a million are taxed at 80 percent - 800k for this tax. Let's say 10,000 people in the UK pay that - that's 8 BILLION to the government (and given the number of people earning over a million is double that, it's a conservative estimate).

Your remaining million pounds of income is taxed at current rates. Net, you are still taking home over half a million a year. That's PLENTY to live on.

We’ve tried that before. It didn’t end well. Look up the “brain drain” of the 1970s.

Who do you think would be happy to hand over 80p of every £1 they earn? Those earning £2m a year (very few) are those who would easily be able to move abroad to countries with much more favourable tax rates.

Cyclingmummy1 · 30/10/2025 17:59

dressinggowns · 30/10/2025 16:00

Teachers? Yes, they work hard. Do they get paid excessive mega-bucks? No.

They don't get a bad wage particularly in london & the pension is very generous.

Very generous? The accrual rate is 1.75% of each year's salary in exchange for 9.9% of that salary. To be taken at 67. Or earlier at a reduced level of 3% loss for each year.

DH has accrued more in his private DC scheme.

silverbirchjuniper · 30/10/2025 18:01

@OldLondonDad - but I'm not suggesting ALL their earnings are taxed at 80 percent. I'm suggesting earnings OVER a million a year are taxed at that rate.

So (very basic maths, not taking into account pension contributions or anything), if you earn 2 million a year, you currently take home just over million a year after tax. If you taxed earnings over a million at 80 percent, your take home would be close to 750k.

Yes, 250k a year more to the tax man is a vast amount. But the country is in crisis - and if you are earning at that level already, you're still leading an incredibly affluent life. The majority of people I know who earn like this wouldn't just retire or move or 'work less' - they'd be annoyed, but the majority would just suck it up!

222days · 30/10/2025 18:03

PocketSand · 30/10/2025 17:25

@222days I would be interested to hear your view on whether you believe in work benefits to be a sensible way to proceed to address economic concerns in the long term. Do you believe the state should intervene to subsidise low wages, high housing costs, lack of after school child care etc? How does this fit in with benefits payments (apart from disability benefits) being contributory?

No, I absolutely do not believe this is sensible. In my opinion we should of course have a safety net but as I said in an earlier post, for all but the severely disabled this should be a contributory system like in most countries that have a welfare state at the level that the UK wants to maintain (Canada, Australia, NZ and other European countries).

It was always false that EU membership was the issue here. It was poor design of the UK welfare state. It was completely permissible and is still the case even for EU citizens that if you move countries you would not immediately be entitled to welfare, you have to pay in for a period first. It is the case in the vast majority that even state pensions are a proportion of salary so you get something out vaguely proportionate to what you pay in and your higher contribution is reflected (while also subsidising others who earn less, of course). It is the case that childcare etc are universal so that higher earners (while massively subsidising others as well as paying their own costs) still get to use the service themselves and therefore don’t mind this and view it as fair. It is the case that EU citizens in another country could use their health service BUT that service could recharge this cost to their country of origin: the problem in the UK was that the UK Government never bothered to implement this system in the NHS to even record who was accessing it let alone recharge it. It is the case that if an EU citizen moves from one country to another and then becomes unemployed that state can deport them back to the state that they came from if they cannot support themselves any longer. This was ALWAYS the case. It’s just that the UK didn’t bother to implement these measures then blamed the EU for this.

The UK has really messed up with how it has set up its welfare state. It isn’t the concept of having a welfare state that is the problem, it is the fact that it is set up very inefficiently. Over 50% of the welfare budget is being paid to pensioners, and 25% of those pensioners receiving it are millionaires. A further 25% don’t require it to have living standards far exceeding that achieved by working-aged people earning the national average salary. Meanwhile the welfare that is available for working-aged people has been funding the unproductive economy, largely through housing benefits and fuelling the British tendency to invest in property rather than business and productive activities. The effect of this has then been companies taking advantage of this fact because they will obviously recruit people at the lowest salary that people will accept (that’s economics, and why Government intervention and redistribution and how it is done - although it is necessary to maintain a decent democracy in a capitalist society - and its consequences should be thought through. This has created a low-waged economy and meant that our PPP has fallen significantly against comparable countries over the last two decades.

There are of course multiple factors, but the specific structure of our welfare system is a huge problem. The lack of any time-limit, the lack of a genuinely contribution-based principle (Bismarck-type system) which is what exists in most of Europe was a huge mistake. This needs to be unwound. Whatever the intentions were, “tax credits” from Brown caused huge economic damage to real-terms salaries (far more than immigration ever did) and we still see the effect of this now. But this kind of gerrymandering of the figures can be traced back into Thatchers time when suddenly lots of people were placed on “incapacity benefits” to make it look like fewer people were unemployed.

It’s hugely damaging, all of it, to aspiration, to the social contract which require higher earners to accept they’ll pay more proportionately and in total but will still get a fair deal. All of the things they valued: education, libraries, the arts - have been decimated. Increasingly they’re told they can’t even access the services they pay for, for everyone else.

Meanwhile those on lower incomes are struggling to survive because there have been no real-terms increases of any significant amount (unless you are earning minimum wage) for nearly 20 years while living costs have sky-rocketed.

Giving more money to the people who are now working full time but not earning enough to live will simply exacerbate the problem and give a green light for companies paying them below the amount they need to live to accelerate this further.

The answer would be to make the changes that I stated to public spending which would free up £80-90bn a year and double spending on education with a much larger focus on technical education for those whom would thrive better with this while making the UK a more favourable place to start and grow a business and take on apprentices. Most people, I think, WANT to work and be self-sufficient and not infantilised in this manner and beholden to the state. They give up in the end because what hope is there for them? We need to have a proper industrial and trading policy, invest in education, invest in small businesses (who make up 50% of GDP), have entrepreneurs go into schools, give people a way to work their own way out and build a decent life and then they will do so because they will see that by doing so other people have more and it is REALISTIC that they can too so will want to do so and do it.

Meanwhile resetting the tax system so that there are incentives for investing in the productive economy rather than bricks and mortar will make living costs gradually more affordable.

Like I said earlier, there is no immediate cake. The decisions made in the past have been economically disastrous. We need to fix them but it WILL NOT happen overnight. But there are solutions that can make things very different in 10-15 years’ time, if we’re prepared to take them and learn from the past, without suddenly leaving everyone who has struggled onto the housing ladder in negative equity and trashing the economy and - again - making everyone poorer.

It would be better if we’d never gone down such an obviously stupid route but it can be gradually reversed. The pre-requisite, however, is to redirect the money we do have to infrastructure and industrial strategy and education so that there are prospects for your people, and change the tax system to stop crushing aspiration and creating perverse incentives. Humans obviously follow the well-documented behavioural patterns that we know so give people incentive and hope and opportunity by creating the environment in which it is possible for them to thrive and they will do so. Then these stupid systems than undermine society can be rolled back on. But we must do the former first before we do the latter otherwise all you will get is riots or people starving in the streets.

Another76543 · 30/10/2025 18:05

silverbirchjuniper · 30/10/2025 18:01

@OldLondonDad - but I'm not suggesting ALL their earnings are taxed at 80 percent. I'm suggesting earnings OVER a million a year are taxed at that rate.

So (very basic maths, not taking into account pension contributions or anything), if you earn 2 million a year, you currently take home just over million a year after tax. If you taxed earnings over a million at 80 percent, your take home would be close to 750k.

Yes, 250k a year more to the tax man is a vast amount. But the country is in crisis - and if you are earning at that level already, you're still leading an incredibly affluent life. The majority of people I know who earn like this wouldn't just retire or move or 'work less' - they'd be annoyed, but the majority would just suck it up!

They don’t just “suck it up”. The 1970s showed this.

BananaPeels · 30/10/2025 18:08

silverbirchjuniper · 30/10/2025 18:01

@OldLondonDad - but I'm not suggesting ALL their earnings are taxed at 80 percent. I'm suggesting earnings OVER a million a year are taxed at that rate.

So (very basic maths, not taking into account pension contributions or anything), if you earn 2 million a year, you currently take home just over million a year after tax. If you taxed earnings over a million at 80 percent, your take home would be close to 750k.

Yes, 250k a year more to the tax man is a vast amount. But the country is in crisis - and if you are earning at that level already, you're still leading an incredibly affluent life. The majority of people I know who earn like this wouldn't just retire or move or 'work less' - they'd be annoyed, but the majority would just suck it up!

But like you say, they are already wealthy after that first million, they just won’t bother earning the second million- not worth the effort for £200k they don’t need. They will just work half the time. The state won’t get any tax on that second million rather than the 45% it gets now

Swipe left for the next trending thread