OK for women to shit themselves 7 months post partum?

[Sugargliderwombat]

I've come away wondering if this is normal or if standards for women really are just this low.

I am 7 months PP. Had a vaginal breech baby with a 2nd degree tear. TMI - I get a dragging feeling in my vag and when I need a number 2 I get a bulge in my vag from my back passage.

Decided I needed to sort my health out and invested in a running pram. Did first session of couch to 5k. Clenched whole way round. Next day, shat myself. 'Jesus this is bad' I thought. ' I'll never run again.'.

Just been to GP. She can't see anything. Not a problem to shit yourself once. Keep doing pelvic floors. Keep running.... Really?! Is it really not that weird to actually shit yourself?!

Yabu - totally fine to shit yourself.
Yanbu - womens healthcare is in the gutter.

My GP said she thought my issue was thrush.
I went private - was diagnosed with prolapse.
I no longer run but I do pilates everyday.
And I take stool softeners so I never get constipated.

Sorry you’re going through this. Runners’ trots can be normal, but probably not the next day. You have a rectocele from what you’ve described- the poo gets trapped there and it can cause problems. If you get a referral to women’s health physio there’s things that can be done. For the time being, could you try an exercise that causes a bit less intra-abdominal pressure? I love reformer Pilates and swimming. The GetmomStrong app also has some really good sweaty workouts for postpartum women. You’ll want to get your pelvic floor sorted out before you fo anything jolty. I’m 18m pp with a cystocele (like rectocele but the front) and am only just starting to run again after intense pelvic floor rehab and a cube pessary. (Don’t let anyone tell you you can never run again though because you can :).)
When you see the women’s health physio ask for your bum to be checked as well in case you’ve had a missed 3rd degree tear. They will be able to feel if there’s a defect. Sometimes it can be hard to see in the post-birth car crash whether it’s a bad second or a third.
Please insist on that women’s health physio referral. Consider private if you can afford it-somewhere that offers Mummy MOT would be good.
I’ve had my own journey since having my son and have been extremely surprised by how content some health professionals are to just leave women pooing themselves. Even at very good hospitals with decent reps for obs and gynae.

One - taking immodium just so you can go running is a really bad idea. That stuff is for very occasional emergencies only (eg need to travel home when you've an upset gut).

Two - any sort of incontinence, bulge etc where it shouldn't be is bad news and shouldn't be a thing. Get a referral and a repair. Be prepared to fight for this. If a man turned up at the doctors with faecal incontinence and something bulging where it shouldn't you know he'd be on a hospital waiting list before you could say boo. As you can tell, I get enraged by the idea that women should just have to live with the aftermath of birth injuries and put up with this kind of crap (no pun intended).

I always found running made any pelvic floor issues worse, to be honest. You can burn off the same calories with a brisk walk (particularly with an incline) anyway without bouncing your innards around. I'd recommend walking and yoga or pilates.

YANBU that women’s health is terrible but this was something I was warned about when DC1 was breech so I’m surprised you weren’t given more information given you had a specialist team. Was the team a private one by any chance that were financially motivated?

Unfortunately I think your GP is probably right that the damage post breech birth is something that means you need to accept an occasional accident might happen - it doesn’t mean anyone should have to accept it but that is the reality and why so few women intentionally opt for them when given the full post birth reality.

A women’s health physio can help but again, they can only do so much.

Hello, think you've misunderstood. I clenched as in tried to support my pelvic floor because I was conscious I had been getting a dragging feeling and that jogging was one of the things likely to worsen a pelvic floor issue. I didn't need a poo then. I shat myself the next day (in dunelm for the extra glamour). My reasoning was 'jesus my pelvic floor is worse than I realised, one quick jogging session and the next day I can't hold my poo in.'.

You could have had a missed third degree tear. I went to a third degree tear repair training day once and the consultant running it was showing ultrasound images of women’s sphincters who’d been told they had second degree tears or even intact perinieums. Months or even years later they were having issues with fecal incontinence. You definitely need to see a decent gynaecologist. I’d go back and push for a referral and yes see a women’s health physio as well while you’re waiting for the gynaecologist. Could just be a pelvic floor/prolapse issue but even so you need seeing.

Also I’d recommend anyone who’s interested in running with prolapse to look up Sophie Power. She’s an ultra marathon runner who has one and there’s an interesting documentary about her. The Why Mums Don’t Jump podcast and book is also great.

We shouldn’t be told that we can’t do high impact exercise after having babies. Avoiding resistance training is just storing up musculoskeletal issues for the menopause. I do get on my soapbox about this because I feel so strongly about it. It’s a huge political issue that we go to our GPs with our organs falling out and we just get shoulder-shrugs and get told it’s normal and we have to limit our activity. It’s common, it isn’t normal.

I think I've worded it badly, I clenched as in tried to support my pelvic floor, I didn't need a poo. The next day I arrived at the shop, needed a poo and couldn't get there in time. I am assuming the run weakened the pelvic floor and so didn't run again and waited for the GP appointment.

Someone upthread has worded it well that if I've made it to 7 months without huge issues you can see why the GP may think it's just a one off which I can see.

Please also look into getting a RADAR key- https://www.bladderandbowel.org/help-information/free-radar-key-home-delivery-service/ . I don’t use mine anymore but I take it everywhere with me, like a talisman.

Absolutely shocking OP, I'm so sorry. It's totally unacceptable for women to be treated this way, as if our bodies failing in significant ways is just the inevitable result of childbearing. You deserve better, as do we all.

You can pay for a (very tweely named) mummy mot with a women’s physio. It might be helpful to do that in the first instance as then you can return to the gp with their diagnosis, if they are unable to improve things for you. You shouldn’t have to pay, but it will be quicker.

It sounds like there might be two sides to this one.

One being, are you having issues post natal that merit further medical attention? Probably yes.

The other being - if what was presented to the GP was a single incident after starting running then that in itself wouldn’t necessarily merit follow up. As a one off and in that context it could be a wide number of causes and as a single event would be put in the category of see if it resolves itself or becomes a regular issue. At which point would absolutely merit follow up.

As someone with a pelvic floor injury, I would strongly encourage you not to resume high impact exercise if you think you’ve got one. See a specialist physio first and get their input on best approach to rehabilitation and ways to get to the point you can do it without causing further harm. Same way as you wouldn’t run on an ankle injury without doing the rehab first.

Good Wont be a problem if i shit myself here in your surgery then will it. Would have been my reply

They can repair rectoceles, I had a repair, helped massively. I was struggling to empty my bowels, slightly different, I needed to splint to go (support the back wall with fingers to allow things to move).

But you have a rectocele and possibly other things.
Get an appointment with a continence nurse- we can self refer in my area- and a women’s health physio. And a second opinion from a GP, as you probably need a gynae referral. The physio and continence nurse can help you describe the issue to the GP if nothing else!

Please stop running. It puts a huge amount of pressure on your pelvic floor.

It sounds as though you have a rectocele (prolapse of the bowel in to the vagina). You need a referral to women's health physio.

I ended up paying privately, it was the best £500 I've ever spent.

When it bulges, that bulge is often full of poo. Your nerves are likely as damaged as the rectal walls, so you won’t feel “the call to stool” until it’s really urgent - too late to hold it in your case.

When you feel the heavy bulge, try going then, but DONT push too strongly! It comes out much easier if you splint, or push the bulge back into place whilst you poo. There are pictures online. I bought a femme-eze (I think?) off Amazon to push everything into place without putting my fingers in there.

Unfortunately breech delivery carry a higher chance of perineal trauma and general trauma to down below than a normal head first delivery which is what you’ve experienced, and amongst the other risk to both mother and baby regardless how much selective they are with the patients etc. The NHS advocates these deliveries because they are cheaper ( and of course they don’t factor in the long term issues the mother suffers as a result and the financial burdens that the nhs has to deal with because of this) because they simply don’t want to know like you’ve just experienced. It is all bodgit and scarper.
We are all just numbers and it all boils down to cost and how they want to balance their books in the short term to look good. Meanwhile in the background….

Am I right in thinking these hospitals are currently involved in a trial regarding the breech deliveries? It might be worth contacting them as well, they should know that you are having issues for their research but also they might be able to help with things like getting you seen quicker to make sure it’s not a missed third degree. Was there any paperwork you signed with contact details regarding a trial?

Their website has email addresses for the leads at all participating hospitals

My friend had a surgical repair for a rectocele. It helped. Ask your GP to refer you.

That’s a good point. These hospitals need to get feedback on the long term effects of such deliveries. They might look cost effective and provide a faster recovery period for mum, however the long term effects of associated with them are not an easy fix, often costly, that’s if they ever get fixed.

Fucking outrageous. This is the way they treat women. I waited 11 years for my full hand diastasis recto to be sewn up when it should have been offered about 1yr after birth. I only got it then because they found a massive fibroid. Awful. Hope you can get this sorted.

Sounds like a rectocele not a rectal prolapse.
I would ask for women's health physio referral, try the squeezy app for pelvic floor exercises (may not make much difference though) and ask for referral to colorectal surgeons if not improving. If you have completed your family they may discuss surgery for the rectocele. Not nice for you to experience but you have potential options. Also things can sometimes tighten up a little with the pelvic floor when people are ready to give up breastfeeding.

I have two kids and have none of this. Not normal and not acceptable to have to just live with!