AIBU to want nurseries to change

[Anythingbutordinary]

I personally didn’t realise that it’s perfectly acceptable to have nursery children in a room with only one qualified early years worker in, and any remaining unqualified staff like 2 apprentices or lunch cover - as long as the ratios are met… 1 adult to 3 babies 😮 (changing one and two are crying?!), 1 adult to 5 children who are age two, 1 adult to 8 age 3 and up unless you are a qualified teacher when you can have 13.

And that “From 1st September 2025, all early years providers must have at least one staff member with current paediatric first aid (PFA) certification on-site at all times when children are present.”
It’s fine to have only one first aider on site with all these preschoolers, toddlers and babies in multiple rooms…. It’s shocking.
It’s so scary thinking about choking and there potentially being only one certified first aider on site, let alone any other emergency… I don’t know how this is allowed.

Only one child under one years of age is allowed in those ratios for a childminder.

I left nurseries 20+ years ago but even then we were all food hygiene and First aid/life support trained. All done in our own time at weekends 🙄🙈

1:3 was standard ratio and i looked after babies at ten weeks old (settling visits) much younger than the ages now. I will say i was an apprentice and not counted in ratio which was much better. But that changed a few years later so everyone could be counted in numbers.

What qualifications did you get before you took the newborn out of the hospital, OP?

They're not unnecessary per se, but their importance is overstated.

Nurseries aren't perfect, but my son has certainly thrived there. The key thing to look for is solid procedures - good processes mean it's easier for kids to spend time with the staff.

I think OP has every right to be concerned
I'm a NNEB nursery nurse and left childcare in 2018 due to similar concerns

Around me the good childminders are all working to capacity and are full with long waiting lists. A childminder with only two charges is probably working for below minimum wage once they take any costs into account (and not much above it if you don't take costs into account) so not many would choose to always be below ratio deliberately.

And if - like most people - the OP wants childcare outside the hours of 9.30 and 2.30 then a childminder is going to offer a much lower ratio once all the wraparound children are in play. Again, it's not easy to keep a childminder business open without offering that.

She might find a childminder that always has a 2:1 ratio, but I really wouldn't advise her to assume it'll stay like that.

I certainly don’t have a 1:1 ratio at home!

1 adult to 3 babies 😮 (changing one and two are crying?!), 1 adult to 5 children who are age two, 1 adult to 8

Already in most nurseries the parents of older children are subsidising the cost of the baby room. If you’re going to manage a business, pay staff and run a building then either it needs to be 1:3 for babies or the costs to parents are going to be astronomical.

I think if you want 1:1 for your baby you need a nanny.

I'm sure it varies area to area, that's why I suggested she 'look into it'. Where I am there are loads of childminders, some running what are basically small nurseries with multiple assistants etc. and others essentially doing a nanny-share (only two families), but with the benefits of being self-employed (and everything in between). Of course the ones offering low ratios charge more per hour to make up the difference.

It all comes down to money at the end of the day, the lower the ratio the more you have to pay.

@Happytapwhat about those of us who need to work? Suggesting that a mental health crisis is partly caused by babies being in nursery is ludicrous. Both mine started at ten months, and are happy, healthy girls.

1 adult to 3 babies (changing one and two are crying?!)

Firstly, there were plenty of times one of my children had to wait to be dealt with because the other needed immediate attention eg a newborn crying while I bathed a toddler - can’t leave the toddler alone, need to rinse her hair, baby has to wait. Changing baby’s nappy, can’t just stop because she’ll fall off the changing table and/or wee everywhere, crying toddler will have to wait. Making toddler’s lunch, baby wants feeding, baby will have to wait and be fed while toddler eats. It happened daily.

Secondly, they aren’t fixed to three specific children anyway. If you have one adult changing a nappy and two other children crying, there will be other adults there.

I mean, I’m not saying there are no issues with nurseries! But unless you have one to one care, there will be times a child has to wait. But that happens in homes as well, and it’s fine.

Many SAHP have more than one child... In fact it is quite normal to have 2 or 3 ... Sounds a bit like nursery ratios?

Actually, practitioners who qualified after 06/16 must have paediatric first aid to count in the qualified staff-child ratio.

Per age group, settings must have one level 3. Of the rest of the staff, 50% must be level 2 qualified at least. You can count competent apprentices as the level below the one they're studying i.e. someone studying for a l3 can be counted as a l2. So no, you can't have one qualified and a bunch of unqualified staff "as long as the ratios are met".

Qualified teachers can have 1:13 aged 3+ as long as they're working alongside a level 3. Without a level 3 their ratio is 1:8.

This is all in the Early Years Foundation Stage and is the legal requirements for settings. It's fine to want reform, we all do. But please don't spread misinformation.

It doesn't work out quite the same though because apart from in the case of triplets they won't all be babies. Unless you homeschool they won't all be at home all of the time either. A baby at home with a SAHP, even with siblings, will usually get some one-on-one time.

Then of course we factor in that you'll try harder to do your best for three children you love more than anything in the world than you might do for three children you're being paid minimum wage to care for.

Comparing nursery to being at home with a loving parent (or other adult) might make us feel better about using a nursery but it's a false comparison and I think we all know that really.

Secondly, they aren’t fixed to three specific children anyway. If you have one adult changing a nappy and two other children crying, there will be other adults there

If there are other adults there, there will be other babies there too. So if one staff member is away changing a baby, the other is left with five babies (two of whom, in this example, are crying).

The changes to the early years framework this year are very positive in the sense of ensuring more supervision when eating and having more paediatric first aiders on site. Every setting I know is petrified of the idea of choking so watch very closely.

Yes I appreciate that. I just don’t think that a child maybe having to wait for the time it takes someone to change a nappy is really a big deal.

I said there were things that nurseries could improve. But I don’t think that one adult being left with five 1 yr olds (or two adults being left with 8) for two mins because one might potentially cry is one of them.

I don’t think the issues with nurseries come from the regulations tbh, the biggest concern of mine would be staff turnover rather than numbers.

Well yes, but for safety reasons they need supervision. Interaction of course (which they get both from the staff and the other kids) but from a safety perspective I focused on the need for supervision being one main reason for the ratios and the majority of situations where supervision is required or intervention needed it’s common sense stuff not requiring trained first aiders or early years qualifications

It's probably a different conversation tbh, but of course it's not two minutes over the course of the day. All the babies will need to be changed multiple times, activities need to be set up and cleared away, three meals plus snacks need to be setup and cleared away...in a nursery setting it will very often be the case that one staff member is attending to either one child or no children leaving the ratios much higher than they initially sound.

It's important to be realistic about what the nursery day really looks like in terms of ratios.

Most people wouldn't want to pay the extra for better ratios and more qualified staff.

We already have pretty low ratios compared to other countries. I know someone who worked in a creche in France and there it was 1:5 for infants and 1:8 for toddlers. Babies spent most of the day in bouncers and fed/napped to strict schedules to make it manageable.

A nappy run can take 30 minutes rather than 2!

I think it's that most people can't afford to pay more for better ratios and better quality staff rather than they just don't want to.

With all the funding available now, I think many people probably could afford an extra supplement for a better ratios etc, but it wouldn't be popular! The current cost vs. quality is adequate for most parents.

Not if you have more than one child.

The ratios are despicable, and no way should small children be raised

I think it’s the under 3 ratio of 1:5 which is too much out of them all. Many in that age range still need help toileting or are in nappies and they haven’t got the independence that comes with being that bit older.

I also think it should be much easier for settings to access additional funding for children who are high needs without having to jump through hoops!