To think menstrual leave should be a thing?

[ItsTheSeasonOfTheStick]

It might just be me, but I find coming into work on my period really hard. I get awful cramps, I feel sick, I am exhausted even after sleeping a full night and I can feel myself bleeding all the time. I just find it so overwhelming and I’m in an awful mood. I’d happily work extra hours for the rest of the month to make up for it, but I genuinely find the first couple of days so hard to work through.

Silly idea. But then I don't agree with a woman taking time off every time if she has an unwell child and is in a relationship. This should be shared.

Of course they shouldn't. But if we had develoepd workplaces that didn't require such rigidity in hours in the first place, many of these problems would disappear.

And increasingly, there ARE workplaces that can and do offer this flexibility. From shifts in preferred start/finish times, to compressed hours, to other types of flexibility.

Sometimes it's more informal - I work with one client currently where there is a sort of presumed assumption that people will do their work so managers are provided with a fair bit of leeway in how they oversee their individual team members' working practices.

This translates differently but, for example, I am aware of a number of parents (men and women) who have informal arrangements whereby they leave early or if WFH, pop out, to facilitate school runs, but those people routinely catch up that time in other ways or on non working days.

One woman within this organisation told me she's had her working pattern changed multiple times as her children hvae grown and their needs have shifted. I know for a fact she's a highly valued member of the team.

Theres also a strong culture within this organisation of needing to do overtime.... but only when encessary. The assumption is everyone leaves promptly at 5. This makes people a lot more willing to Do the overtime when it is genuinely needed.

Oh come on, I've given birth three times and I experienced neither horror nor degradation. For me all three were empowering and positive experiences - even the emergency caesarean.

I'm posting this response as a deliberate counterbalance to all the posts that would have young women believe pregnancy is inevitably like a cross between Alien and Invasion of the Body Snatchers.

I loved being pregnant.

If you are sick enough from your period to not be able to work regularly, please go and see your GP

I do think women should get slightly more leave entitlement to accommodate menstruation.

I suffer badly with very heavy periods due to PCOS and I have to take tranxemic acid to manage it. Not to mention the impact on mood, energy and productivity. Even half a day a month extra would help someone like me. I’ve had to cut my hours down to deal with it, which means I earn less money.

Did you know that the marriage bar in the workplace continued in some form until as late as 1975, when the Sex Discrimination Act was introduced? A lot of this antediluvian, sex-based discrimination is a lot more recent than we might think.

As for rape within marriage, the lateness of the introduction of that legislation is nothing short of scandalous.

We don't need to be putting ourselves back still further. There's a point at which it becomes counterproductive. If women want to get to the top of our career-game, then we are required to put in a great deal of commitment. You cannot get away from that. And once you start special dispensation for things like periods, which all women have had since the beginning of time, with an expectation that other colleagues will pick up your slack for you, you've begun the process of discrediting yourself in the workplace.

Attitudes like this really don't help women at all.

Soon we'll be back to the old-fashioned notion that every woman is disabled by her period and needs to stay home one week out of every four.

Exactly

If periods are that bad. Sick leave should be used.

Tbh I wished got mirena years ago

Agree that there would be too much piss-taking. My periods have never been bad enough for me to not be able to work. They’re just inconvenient really- I have minimal pain. My poor DD suffers horribly with hers though. She has a physical job- not the sort of thing you can do from home. She just has to get on with it. She’s seeing a gynaecologist soon so I’m hopeful (but not super confident) she’ll get some help.

No men need those rights.

Flexible working only works for certain occupations where your work can be covered by someone else or at another time.

If women are to genuinely have equal rights in the workplace, the NHS/GPs need to step up for women and prioritise diagnosis and treatment for women's complaints, including periods and menopause. Optimal treatments need to be made available to prevent women from losing their jobs due to poor attendance.

This is an NHS issue rather than an employer issue. Far more clinical proactivity is required to get working age people back to work and continuing at work. The NHS encourages a sick note culture and fkrgwts that it is funded by taxes and ot's therefore important that as many people as possible are fit for work.

Tell us about the medical disabilities unique to men for which employment provision has been put in place already.

To add, you don't get sick pay if you're self-employed. I've been rough as anything but keep going because no work = no pay.

I disagree. I think it needs to be recognised as what it is - an aspect of health that can interfere performance. It’s the same as menopause. Menopause is becoming more recognised by employers now. We even have menopause care cover written into health insurance policy at work. There’s specific support for it.

I don’t think women need to be seen as “delicate” or “disabled by their period” or “less able” but what does need to be recognised is that we experience a biological function which can be incredibly difficult, and this varies from woman to woman. To me this is a much more progressive, modern and helpful way to recognise the experience of menstruation for women!

I don't think you can assume no one else is unable to dream that it can be that bad.

There are women for whom it is seriously debilitating, and that can and should be managed through sick leave.

But there are also lots of women - more women - for whom it sucks, can be really quite uncomfortable or who have other symptoms like flooding - who manage

And then there are women for whom it is a minor discomfort.

If menstrual leave became a thing, what would happen is the second group , and even perhaps the third, would also want it, and that would start to be a problem.

but that’s something you need to consider before becoming self-employed, that’s one of the pitfalls of working for yourself - if you don’t like it and want more employment benefits, then find a PAYE job. I can work self-employed in my profession, and likely get more pay, but I prefer the security, pension, holiday and sick pay that comes with being an employed member of staff…

Spain offers menstrual leave — I think up to 3 to 5 days per month which is paid for by the state.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/04/spain-historic-menstrual-leave-law-hardly-used-period-pain-endometriosis

@PeonyPatch I was a teacher before I became a tutor. Zero regrets - despite no sick or holiday pay and a much lower pay rate! I gave 20 years and should have left sooner. I do worry what would happen if I couldn't work due to illness, but it was still so worth it to get my life back.

I have found being self employed an advantage in this context. MOstly becaues it has meant that if I want to take a few hours or a day, I can ismply do that, then catch up later. Over the last 10 years, I have regularly found I simply coul dnot get the work done during the week for whatever reason, and have been able to do it on the weekends instead.

Not all self employed jobs are the same though, I get that. But if an employer could offer that flexibility - which at least one of my clients does seem to do for its employees - then it would be the best of both worlds.

And next two weeks off for PMS.

Plus, women demanding to WFH because of 'domestic responsibiities'.

The 1950s again.

If your periods are so debilitating that they stop you from being able to function, then you are already covered by existing legislation for disabilities - it's not normal to be thatbadly affected so if your particular situation makes it that much worse for you then that counts as a disability for which you are entitled to ask for reasonable adjustments. You are essentially describing having a flexitime setup where you can bank extra hours worked at ok times of the month, and then use that time to have a couple of days off when you need it. That would be a perfectly reasonable adjustment in some jobs, but would not be reasonable in other jobs so the employer does have discretion to decline if there's business reasons why such an arrangement can't work, and it's your responsibility as a competent grownup to apply for jobs which are in fields of endeavour where a flexible working pattern like this can be made to work, in the same way that someone with impaired vision has the personal responsibility to seek out employment opportunities where vision isn't vital. It doesn't need to be universal additional entitlement because most women are able to take a couple of ibuprofen and crack on. It's not a failing in you if you can't, nor a judgement upon you - but adding it as a further universal entitlement increases the burden to employers on employing any woman and that's not necessarily a desirable thing.

Your Q makes no sense - I clearly said IF menstruation was unique to men likely there would be reasonable adjustments already written into employment law as a requirement.

It's not "presnteeism" to expect people to do the job they are being paid for.

If you really don't like the conditions of your employment, there is a clear way forward. Become self-employed, be it contract work or owning your own business. Then you can arrange your work conditions the way you like.

The headline is slightly misleading.

"The wording of the legislation that was finally passed, however, limited menstrual leave to those with previously diagnosed conditions such as endometriosis, Aterido noted. “Menstrual leave is a misnomer because it is really leave due to intense secondary dysmenorrhea that has been diagnosed,” she said. “If you’re not diagnosed, your family doctor can’t sign off on menstrual leave.”

So it's not as though you can just take a few days off every month because you're menstruating. You have a have an existing, diagnosed condition. Simply being on your period doesn't entitle you to paid leave.