AIBU to advise against computer science at uni for DS

[OnePunnyKoala]

DS16 currently studies bio, chem and maths for a level as he's considering a career in medicine. Despite this he's not thinking of switching subjects so that they're more suited for CS. DS is very undecided between medicine and CS. Although he would prefer to study computer science at uni he heard that the job market is very oversatured and AI may replace a lot of jobs. Is studying computer science at uni worth it in 2025?

I think you have to have a real passion for medicine to do it these days. NHS is a mess. Training posts while they have been increased, there are still not enough.
My DH is a consultant and so many colleagues are off sick with stress.. He wishes he’d done product design or medical engineering.
is there a degree that would combine both interests?

I’m senior in tech and earn six figures. I don’t see this changing any time soon.

I find it absolutely crazy you're even thinking it's a bad move. This is absolutely one of the best times to be doing CS. There's a tech boom! If he was my son, I'd suggest following it with a masters in AI after a bit of experience maybe. There will be a lot of work for ML engineers etc.

If you don't know anything about CS or AI or the related job markets, then your advice is a bit useless and could really damage his prospects if he listens to you.

After banking, law and management consultancy, technology is probably the most lucrative sector to work in.

I agree with you, OP, and I'm in tech, too. I got in before things took a turn for the worse but I have a ton of connections in the field through some programs I did a few years ago, and I know of so many people who have more experience than I do who just cannot find work. It's not just juniors, although they are disproportionately affected. Across many different fields, too: mobile development, web dev, dev ops, robotics. It's absolutely dire right now and showing no signs of improvement. The tech market is the worst it has been in any of our lifetimes so far, and while hiring tends to come in boom/bust cycles, with AI, it may never recover to pre-2022 levels.

Did he take CS at GCSE? If not then I'd suggest he signs up for a distance learning CS GCSE course to study in parallel with his A-Levels to get a proper taster for the subject. If he's of the academic calibre to succeed in Medicine he can cope with more academic workload than just 3 A-Levels.

Computer Science is not about coding very much. The people who are studying computer science seriously are the onces who are going to be inventing new kinds of Quantum Computers, inventing new ways of coding new kinds of AI. Much of the study is about understanding in depth what each part of a computer actually does, what more primitive forms of it were like and how modern versions are better and what future improvements would be worth striving for in terms of the hardware, and how operating systems are constructed and hang together and how coding kanguages work and how different ones are optimised for different circumstances in terms of software. Prowess with actually writing code (which are the jobs that might be done by AI) is a relatively minor component.

The jobs in that kind of Computer Science are not going to be replaced by AI. Even in functions where AI is being used heavily there are fundamental functions where a human brain needs to frame the task correctly for the AI to perform what is needed, and needs to be able to analyse what is produced to establish whether it has actually achieved the task and can then adjust the AI's functuonal parameters to improve the outcomes. These are new kinds of jobs for which an in depth understanding of CS is part of.

If any particular job market is over-saturated thar is only a problem for the least-talented and least-hardworking people in the jobseeker pool. People with the right attitude and determination can still succeed.

Brilliant post by @FenceBooksCycle

Ds did 4 A levels, maths, further maths, computer science and physics. He knew he wanted to do CS from year 10 so did a lot of extra stuff outside of school not just coding but the broader applications in real life. He listened to podcasts and went to Google DevFest among other meetups. A levels wise he got 4 A stars because he understands maths and played with maths, learning why the area of a triangle is base x height divided by 2 etc not just what you are taught.

I do think taking a punt at uni on a course you haven't studied can be risky. A lot of high ranking UK unis for computer science just want maths but also further maths and lots of applicants for those courses have further maths.

Ds said a lot of first years struggled with the CS side of things if they hadn't studied it at A level because they lacked the foundational knowledge of how systems work. This doesn't seem like a problem for Ds personally but it was an issue in group work. He was at Durham so highly regarded uni, maths heavy CS course.

He got a summer internship in our home town because Durham doesn't have a lot of job opportunities compared to a city. This is also part of the whole there are no CS jobs, where are you looking? If memory serves, the summer internship vetting process started by asking what GCSE and A levels he had. Only a small percentage have 4 A levels compared to the standard 3. The next round was what uni and potential degree classification. Next round was face to face interview over Zoom. The next round was a 6 hour practical online test, monitored by employees at the company (national brand) he was teamed with another potential intern they had to work through a real life problem together. The overseers could see what they were doing and hear all their conversations as they tried to work out what to do. Then he was offered the internship which was 8 weeks paid.

Off the back of that internship he was offered a graduate job with a £32k salary. He is over 1 year in and had a pay rise, won an award within the company for basically being epic. He also has the right attitude doing additional qualifications to boost his CV because he loves learning.

There are jobs available, but looking starts early, summer internships are the foot in the door which is why the vetting is so intense. The graduate job Ds got was never advertised, nor the other however many there were as they filled them with summer interns and their proven ability. It was our city, London and several other places so not a one off. This was also Ds's first ever job too, never had a Saturday job so no experience of working but proved his worth.

The best advice I can give is talk him though both degree courses. There are a lot of unis on youtube giving advice about applying, there are students showing their day to day life as a student or talking about their whole experience of their course post uni. There is a lot of information at his fingertips and you could be with him to see what it is all about too.

As it is half term it is a good time to visit a uni for just a walk around the place is now, bustling with students. Open days tend to take place before or after terms. Durham has a student population of about 22k meaning it is very different when uni terms have started compared to summer.

Medicine is hugely competitive, lots of very good graduates can’t find a job. I think CS will be applicable more than ever in the coming years, because of AI so I think it’s a smart choice.

Tbh if he isn’t that bothered about medicine as a career I wouldn’t do it, it’s a difficult degree and a difficult career so it’s really not for people who don’t really want to do it.
I’d suggest a degree with a lot of data science/programming/coding would be better and useful for the future.
The subjects he is doing for A level are fine for CS and they also keep doors open for medicine if he changes his mind

Bioinformatics is really taking off in the nhs
Could be a good masters after a cs degree

Computer science, numerate degree he will be fine.

Medicine is hard work and has long hours at the start with relatively poor salary.

It's almost more of a lifestyle than a job, and these days I think a lifestyle you have to be really committed to.

I actually find it difficult to believe someone wants to choose between the two, because people who want to do medicine tend to really want to do it and are focussed on that lifestyle no matter what the drawbacks they know are coming.

I think if you don't set out with this attitude you are probably unlikely to make it through.

Thanks for all your replies

@OnePunnyKoala ask your DS what he’s most passionate about, medicine or CS and support that development with an interest in the other field. He can do both.