To hesitate to move back from US to UK because of terrible state of NHS

[Star555]

(Apologies for the double post; posted on Living Overseas board but realised it's probably better to post here to get the perspective of MNers who currently live in the UK rather than the US)

I'm a long-term expat (in my 30s) living in the US. My parents and I moved to the US many years ago when I was in school, and although I have always thought about moving back home as an adult (I love history and culture and easy access to Europe, which the US woefully lacks), my parents are settled in the US and don't want to move back because they think the UK is in a bad state (failing NHS, high taxes, older infrastructure, etc.) One parent had a major operation recently and is under ongoing treatment at a top hospital here in America, and they think they would not have had received timely care like this in the UK given the current state of the NHS.

I have been on the fence about whether moving back home would be a good choice or not, and am thinking about it more seriously now given the US government situation, although my parents are against the idea. I don't mind the lower salaries in the UK so much (I have a STEM postgraduate degree and would likely have a job at a company in/near London), but I am mainly concerned about the state of healthcare. I have heard so many horror stories about overflowing A&Es and huge waits for life-saving treatments in the UK. I am currently single and don't have any close family or friends in the UK that I could count on for support if I were to need major medical treatment (touch wood). I would be willing to pay (or my employer would pay) for private insurance, but am not sure how much it would truly help.

Has anyone else decided against moving back to the UK, or decided to move out of the UK, primarily because of the sorry state of the NHS? Is access to timely medical care really that bad in London and the South in general? On one hand, I want to return to my homeland and raise (future) children there because of the culture, etc. but on the other hand I want reliable, high-quality medical care for myself and any kids I might have.

This.

As an example OP, I attended A&E with severe menstrual bleeding. I was sent by 111 (though aren’t we all!) and I was seen so quickly. The other patients must have been thinking WTF as I looked ok, however I was loosing far too much blood. After having testing and samples taken the gynaecologist registrar came to see me ‘from upstairs on the wards’ and took a sample etc etc…..

When it’s it’s serious they are good. As the title suggests it’s for accidents like broken legs or emergencies like heart attacks, not for some of the ‘emergencies’ some turn up for, then complain they’ve had to wait 10 hours…… you wouldn’t have to wait that long if it was a true emergency.

It’s not perfect but overall I’ve had positive experiences with the NHS. I’m very glad we have it. A Canadian friend who works in the NHS raves about it.

The NHS benefits everyone here so if you fall on hard times or lose your job then you still have access unlike the US. The US system sounds very unfair.

I’ve always been under the impression that US health outcomes are better despite having fancy private hospitals.

The NHS is a shit show. Getting a GP appointment is nye on impossible. Very difficult to get an NHS Dentist.
We have 1000s of undocumented illegal young men roaming around the streets unfettered, a high court has deemed their rights supercede those of the British people. Tthe government have stood by and allowed anti semitism to flourish, leaving the Jewish communities terrified. There is a huge homelessness problem, British renters are being evicted to accommodate illegal immigrants. Anyone who objects to all this is called a racist.
So I would say, dont touch the UK with a 10 foot barge pole

If you need “life saving” treatment you will get it immediately. You will also get top class maternity services and cancer care if you need them. It’s the elective stuff that tends to be shit - but that’s where private cover can help. Don’t bake this your sole reason not to move.

I've experienced long waits in A&E though not in the past couple of years as haven't had to go - but I'm talking 4 to 6 hours and nothing life threatening. My experience is that we can talk to a GP if we want to, services are provided and my adult children have easily accessed services in recent years. It's frustrating sometimes but services are good once accessed. NHS saved a relative's life around a year ago - they were treated immediately when they had a bleed on the brain, no lasting after effects. We are in London.

As a young person I really don't think you need have any concerns on that score. No one I know longs to be part of the US system, but some do have private health care - which I guess is cheaper if you start paying younger.

NHS is extremely variable from place to place,

gp surgeries are offering nhs services but vary massively in terms of how busy they are and what specific services they offer. You are not supposed to register with a gp outside of your “catchment” area.

so people with stories is just anecdotes. Your gp surgery might be well staffed and well run (like my last one) or massively overwhelmed by new housing estates and having trouble getting staff like my new one.

most private health insurance these days in the U.K. includes 24/7 access to phone/online advice from a gp because they recognise that many people cannot get in to see their nhs gp.

if you google “the 8am scramble for appointments” you’ll get some idea of the system.

nhs GPs generally only do 9-5 or 8-6 at best mon- fro and then “out of hours” would be at a minor injuries place/big clinic so centralised for each area. The government made out of hours not part of the gp contract about 15 years ago so weekends and evenings/nights you can see someone but only really for stuff that can’t wait until morning - so not referrals, etc, more my kid has an ear infection, etc.

hospitals - private covers most elective procedures eg knee replacements, and increasingly these days stuff like cancer as well. There is no private A and E /ER so if you are seriously ill you have to go and take your chances.

in general the nhs is good at stopping you dying although the waits are causing problems with this with the royal college of emergency medicine estimating this is up to 16000.

https://rcem.ac.uk/news/each-a-dearly-loved-family-member-excess-deaths-linked-to-long-ae-waits-increased-to-over-16600-last-year/

I do personally know one person who has died due to an and e wait and another who was misdiagnosed with anxiety for seven months when she had a brain tumor.

If you have private health insurance and are generally healthy it’ll be ok.

I wouldn’t count on it to be honest. Yes something like a major car crash yes.

but you could walk into a&e with massive bilateral pulmonary embolisms and be told it’s anxiety and sent home (twice). (Dd)

you could be in a&e waiting room with bad chest pain and be told you won’t be seen for hours, leave after waiting hours and die 10ft from the a&e front door. (Friend)

you could have a life threatening rare autoimmune condition and the gp spend months fannying around saying they don’t know what’s wrong and then you nearly die (husband)

you can spend a long time back and forth to the gp with abdominal issues and you tell the gp you’re worried it’s pancreatic cancer. Get fobbed off and by the time you’re diagnosed a year later it’s too late (mum)

you can go to the gp with textbook abdominal aortic aneurism symptoms and be sent home with a clean bill of health and drop down dead three hours later in your living room (friends dad)

OP, on MN there are a lot of small minded little Britain types that think that the world outside this increasingly irrelevant island is worse than here.

If you are in the US, stay there. Higher salaries, better job prospects, way better healthcare.

In this country which once was a good place to live, there is a substandard healthcare system which people have some king of blind allegiance to, crime is out of control, you’re more likely to get arrested for non crime hate incident (aka a tweet) than someone who assaults you or burgles you. You’ll pay through the nose for expensive energy because of the net 0 cult. Women are being sexually assaulted on the street with no consequence. Illegal migrant crime is out of control.

And you’ll pay taxes through the nose so that the successive corrupt governments can steal your money, what’s left of it is spent on a ballooning state and those on welfare.

Stay put.

How odd.

I wasn’t too sure it was going too well on the other side of the pond. Has Trump made American great again?

@Swiftie1878 How long did you live in the US?

I don’t agree. The nhs is a reason not to move here. I’m seriously worried and considering retiring abroad just to secure access to medical care as I age and to pain relief.

Yes you can take out private medical insurance but that won’t help you in an emergency. People are dying due to lack of care - my FIL amongst them after 6 hour wait for ambulance ( serious bleeding head injury) 10 hours in ambulance outside A&E and then 3 hour wait to see doctor. All night on trolley and bed after about 24 hours straight into bed next to person with Covid ( man had severe asthma - what could go wrong?!)

The NHS has also provided what appears to be excellent cancer care to my father and I’ve had positive experiences.

The truth is it’s an absolute lottery - you might be lucky - you might not!!

You’ve heard of I.C.E right? American is extremely divided and it is them importing their opinions over here.

!!!

Compared to where?!!! Haven’t you read any of the recent reports on UK maternity services?! CQC 2024 rated almost half of maternity units as inadequate or requiring improvement.

Maybe you only get your ‘news’ from the BBC and the Guardian. But if you look at the statistics and real numbers, the yeah, under Trump the US economy is doing great.

The world is laughing at this country and also Europe. Pathetic, flailing, and weak. Unable to protect our borders, economy in the toilet, citizens arrested for tweets while rapists and sexual offenders walk around terrorising women.

What about I.C.E? Do you plan on breaking into the US illegally? If not, what’s your issue with I.C.E.

@Star555 my father in law has an urgent care centre on the same site as his GP practice and also a small cottage hospital on the same site - what he doesn’t have is a full scale A&E for 10 miles. We do have urgent care centres , but not everywhere -

I have benefitted, as an adult, from free maternity care twice, both requiring a week’s stay in hospital; 2 lots of investigations for suspected cancer under a 2 week pathway; been sterilised; had jaw surgery; had knee surgery and now get free meds for the rest of my life. I’ve also had breast and cervical screening several times, several vaccinations and eye / hearing tests. All for free. Plus likely hundreds of GP appointments.
How much would that cost in the US either via health insurance or direct payment?

How often are you in A&E?!

My GP practice is excellent, I’ve had hospital treatment fault recently and it was excellent. My father in law lives in a different county/health trust and just received excellent emergency and in-patient care.

The NHS has been in a better place, but it really isn’t as bad as the dramatic headlines. And compared to the treatment a poor American receives, it’s incredible.

I think you’ve summed it up succinctly tbf!

@Star555 If you’re prepared to pay for private medical treatment, I personally think you’ll be fine. Re. Any future children. To regularly see a pediatrician as they would in the US, for example, you’ll need to pay privately, but then you’d be paying insurance premiums in the US so it might be awash.

I suspect that many people posting have no idea how good healthcare (with good insurance) can be in the US so I understand why your parents don’t want to move back as older adults. But you’re decades younger.

Tbh, unless you’re a high earner, your standard of living will probably drop in the UK, but you’ll have safety, more leave/employment rights, and the climate- yes, I personally love the UK’s climate. 😂

I can’t stand seeing people talk our country down.

Wait, don’t tell me, let me guess… you’re a flag waving ‘patriot”. I recognise your flavour of patriotism. It shits all over everything that’s good about this country.

How much do you pay for your health insurance in the US?

I love the UK and think the people of all colours and creeds who live for the most part in amity and mutual tolerance here, are some of the kindest, most welcoming and politest on the planet.

But the NHS does scare me particularly as I age. I wish we could move to a European type health insurance system.

Stand seeing people talk country down? Have you swallowed one of Two Tier’s badly written speeches.

Let me guess, you’re ideologically blinded and don’t mind being lowering your bar to below earth’s crust, just so you can pretend that’s everything’s great. When the country is headed to bankruptcy because of our budget deficit and insane public spending, top rate taxpayers are feeling the country like the plague has broken out, businesses can’t abandon this country fast enough, and we’re reduced to fast becoming a thrid world country.

Sorry, but you’re deluded.

Depends on your currrnt health situation. So we moved back to the uk with my daughter who has specific health conditions/ needs. We had to move back for personal reasons and if I could I would turn back time and never leave the care and support she got compared to here.