To hesitate to move back from US to UK because of terrible state of NHS

[Star555]

(Apologies for the double post; posted on Living Overseas board but realised it's probably better to post here to get the perspective of MNers who currently live in the UK rather than the US)

I'm a long-term expat (in my 30s) living in the US. My parents and I moved to the US many years ago when I was in school, and although I have always thought about moving back home as an adult (I love history and culture and easy access to Europe, which the US woefully lacks), my parents are settled in the US and don't want to move back because they think the UK is in a bad state (failing NHS, high taxes, older infrastructure, etc.) One parent had a major operation recently and is under ongoing treatment at a top hospital here in America, and they think they would not have had received timely care like this in the UK given the current state of the NHS.

I have been on the fence about whether moving back home would be a good choice or not, and am thinking about it more seriously now given the US government situation, although my parents are against the idea. I don't mind the lower salaries in the UK so much (I have a STEM postgraduate degree and would likely have a job at a company in/near London), but I am mainly concerned about the state of healthcare. I have heard so many horror stories about overflowing A&Es and huge waits for life-saving treatments in the UK. I am currently single and don't have any close family or friends in the UK that I could count on for support if I were to need major medical treatment (touch wood). I would be willing to pay (or my employer would pay) for private insurance, but am not sure how much it would truly help.

Has anyone else decided against moving back to the UK, or decided to move out of the UK, primarily because of the sorry state of the NHS? Is access to timely medical care really that bad in London and the South in general? On one hand, I want to return to my homeland and raise (future) children there because of the culture, etc. but on the other hand I want reliable, high-quality medical care for myself and any kids I might have.

I'd stay in the US. Not because the US is better but because we already have a load of entitled whingers in the UK, we don't really want another one that's judging us on the histrionics of mumsnet and the Daily Mail.

Also, you say you're healthy but yet you've been to A&E many times? I'm twice your age and have never been to A&E in my life. So you're not that healthy!

Hahaha yes. I should have said the climate is very context dependent on where you are in the states. Rather the British climate than the desert.

The US also has that weird thing where they over-specialise. You don't need to see a gynecologist every year for a pelvic exam if you're not having any issues. Ditto annual checkups with a pediatrician. We're much more generalist and nurse led in the UK- the idea of the GP or family doctor is much less common in the US. Another function of insurance. This can lead people to think they're getting worse care, but you don't need a specialist to prescribe you antibiotics for a chest infection or sort out your birth control or do your kid's vaccinations.

@Star555 You seem to have a very rose-tinted view of the USA.

Have you considered the risk of your future children being shot dead at school? (or even having to teach them what to do if there's a shooting?) or the risk of you being prosecuted and imprisoned for having a miscarriage?

Curious about what your parents think is 'new' infrastructure in the USA? USA is notoriously backward in terms of anything other than roads. The train network is decades behind Europe. The emergency service network in terms of addressing and responding to environmental hazards such as flood, wildfire, is poor and underfunded, especially now, with Trump's wrecking ball.

But yeah, if you have health insurance it's fine in the US. Ditto in the UK. If you're specifically concerned about getting quick treatment at A&E, then central London is your best bet, with multiple A&E departments.

No, I said I've been to urgent care many times. (Injuries, infections, etc.) Most of those times, I called my GP office first and asked for a same day appointment. Only of they couldn't give me that, then I went to urgent care.

I have only been to the emergency room (A&E) once, and that was because the urgent care was closed in the middle of the night and I had caught a bad stomach bug from travelling abroad and couldn't keep any food down.

Yeah. Most of us just sleep that off.
Stay in the US. I think you’ll be happier there.

I’m not sure the OP is real. I haven’t been to A&E for decades. Neither has my son.

My husband is quite a sickly person. He has something major needing urgent attention about every 18 months. He doesn’t just get shingles. He gets SHINGLES capital letters, advancing on his eye. Everyone else gets a UTI, he gets kidney infections. His bowels are unspeakable. He’s had 3 surgeries on various bits of him since we met and we’ve only known each other for 9 years. He goes to his GP with a list. Right now he’s having active treatment for 4 unrelated conditions.

Not only has he always had excellent care - he’s the world’s sickliest human and even he has avoided A&E. (He gets value for money from the walk-in centres though…).

@Star555 "The USA has significantly higher rates of food poisoning compared to the UK and Europe, with estimates suggesting one in six Americans are affected annually, compared to about one in 28 in the UK. The US also has a higher death rate from foodborne illnesses, with approximately 3,000 deaths per year, compared to about 500 in the UK."
It'll be because of lower food standards in the US.
Good luck.

Yeah if you turned up to A&E with a tummy bug you’d wait hours here.

Because it’s not an accident or an emergency.

Yup.

Agree.

The shootings are indeed a big cause of worry in the US, I will not deny it. But I live in a liberal coastal city so it's better than being in the Southern US at least.

'New' infrastructure according to parents -- buildings better-maintained, newer, bigger and cleaner, more accessible. Shops open longer hours. Public toilets and drinking water fountains more numerous and accessible (airports, museums, etc.) More money for better equipment in hospitals, universities, scientific labs, etc. I do agree with many of these things, but I think I actually have a rose-tinted view of the history and culture the UK offers so I'm willing to compromise.

I was advised to go to the emergency by the 24/7 phone nurse because I was at risk of severe dehydration and would need IV fluids.

I’m in London and have never had an issue getting a same or next day appointment at the longest on a weekday. On weekends you’d call 111 and ask for their advice (they can get you into an OOO GP or a doctors call out or even send you an ambulance). The regular GP is closed.

Complete overkill covering ass advice. What else would you expect from a 24/7 phone nurse? Of course you're told to go emergency. Millions of people have thrown up after eating something a bit dodgy and millions have survived.

When did they last come to the UK? Yes we have some older and inaccessible buildings because they’re historic. We also have numerous new buildings, stadiums, malls, houses etc being built every year that are large and modern.

You’re also moving to London where lots of shops are open into the evening and small supermarkets remain open on Sundays. There are water fountains in every airport and museum and even on lots of streets in London (you can also just ask in a pub if they’ll fill your water up for you… or buy a bottle of water’.

On the global rankings the U.S. takes the top spot. UCL (in London) is second… a UK uni is also third, fifth and ninth. So that’s bollocks - and it was a UK lab that released the first COVID vaccine not a US one.

Yeah in the UK you’d have been told to try and drink some water and see how you are in 12 hours.

@Star555 Thanks for confirming "shootings are indeed a big cause of worry". Like yeah, we know this - and USA is the top country in the whole world for gun death. Congrats.

Your parents don't understand the meaning of infrastructure. It's not shops open longer, or more public toilets or water fountains FFS.

Haha let's not get into details but this was severe diarrhoea, nonstop...

It’s relatively uncommon for 30 year olds without underlying conditions to develop pneumonia so you may have been unlucky. Minor injuries units are available in larger towns and cities here and treat uncomplicated fractures, bites, wounds etc without the long waits associated with A&E. You can get private insurance for elective procedures and GP care if you choose to pay for it. You will also get paid maternity leave at most larger companies. If you are looking at London and the southeast though, I would bear in mind that housing costs may affect your ability to pay for private healthcare.

@Star555 we do have all that kind of infrastructure , big malls, accessibility etc in UK in bigger city’s - in fact when I go to US ( and have been a fair bit with work) the thing to me that is poor ‘is ‘ the infrastructure but for me that means, - overhead cables, lack of train networks, poor ways of coping with disasters , even the main airports seem a bit primitive . Don’t get me wrong there are things I like about the US and I always enjoy it there but it does seem a bit behind the times in many ways if I compare to say Scandinavia or Netherlands or even the UK in some aspects.

Your history of extreme reactions to mild and common pathogens that most people cope with easily will of course affect your medical insurance premium. It's also going to affect your travel destinations.

Again good luck, and probably better to stay put than risk foreign germs.

Just go private then.

I think long waits in A&E are standard everywhere.

I also have called for (and received) same day appointments with my NHS GP (when serious enough). I had to go to urgent care recently which was a three hour wait but it was triaged and when a service is open to all that’s to be expected.