To apply for the job my colleague needs?

[CrossCountryWoosh]

This sounds really arrogant and obviously Alice's application and interview might blow mine out of the water.

A colleague I really like (Alice) and I have both seen a job. Alice is applying for it and I am thinking of. We both have a really good chance of getting it. We both earn about the same. Jobs like this dont come up much.

Alice's husband is a dick. The pay rise with the new job would give her the option to leave (she doesnt feel finamcially able to right now) or at the very least give her a bit of power back.

Alice is actively looking for a new job.

I'm happy enough in my current job and wasnt looking.

So I guess, Alice needs this job and it has the potential to be life changing for her. Whereas Im thinking "that'll be fun" and "more money for shoes".

Alice wont hold a grudge if I apply or get the job. I wont hold a grudge if she gets it and doesnt make any life changes.

Obviously, her application and interview might not even give me a chance.

Should I apply and accept if I am successful?

YANBU - all is fair in love and job applications
YABU - dont potentially ruin her chance. That makes you more of a dick than her husband.

Dont come at me for my arrogance, Im just trying to think of all the possible results.

If you don’t apply for this job, it doesn’t mean Alice will 100% get it.
And if you do apply for this job, it doesn’t mean Alice would’ve got it if you hadn’t applied.
And just because you apply, it doesn’t mean you’ll get the job.
Alice might still get the job. (Sorry, reality check, not intended as a confidence bash in the slightest).

Basically, you should 100% apply for this job.

Since you were not actively looking for a job and getting it would be a frivolous change for you, I would not apply.

I was made redundant last month. I have received many rejections. I am very, very low. If I learnt that a colleague who I knew liked me a lot applied for a job I was going for because "it would be fun and be more shoes" I admit it would sting. Of course, they would have done nothing wrong and the hurt feelings would be entirely mine to deal with, but it would make me question the friendship.
However, you've said Alice won't hold a grudge so it's all OK, no?

If Alice truly wouldn't mind, I would apply. Because holding back solely because you hope she leaves her crap marriage is an unreasonable reason not to go for a job.

If an outside hire gets it, or if Alice c gets it and stays with her crap bloke, you'll be kicking yourself.

I don't think you can say she 'won't mind' if you apply and get the job.

I also don't think you like 'Alice' very much if you could entertain doing this.

She didn't tell you directly about it, and multiple people will apply, so I suppose it's not really wrong of you to. But if you don't want to potentially get it in her place, maybe apply for the same position in another company? Would she also have the opportunity to do that if her application is unsuccessful?

I would apply, as circumstances can change. You may not need the extra money now, but what if you suffer a bereavement or something similar? You never know what is around the corner.

And there are not guarantees Alice will get it if you don't apply.

If you are sure you would enjoy it, I would at the very least apply now and keep your options open.

It speaks well of you that you would think twice, though.

Whatever happens, Alice is lucky to have you as a friend.

Exactly! I’m not sure what’s so complex about the situation?

Those PP saying they wouldn’t apply, imagine if they’d got a job on merit which they didn’t really need and would stay equally happy but just with ‘less money for shoes’ in their current role and HR contacted them to say there was someone known to be a lovely hardworking person but in a bad personal situation and this job could be life changing for them and would they give it up to this person instead? I highly doubt they would all willingly agree.

To not apply on this basis is daft as job application numbers are unprecedented right now and so statistically there will be many deserving people with no job and kids to care for going up against people who already have a job but want a better or more interesting one. We wouldn’t judge the ‘already haves’ for competing with the less fortunate would we?

I wouldn’t apply. I couldn’t live with myself if her life continued to be shit because I’d got the job that would have enabled her to leave her husband.

No - I wouldn't. It could be life-changing for her vs a new pair of shoes for you.

No offence, but its not Alice's job - so its fair game for anyone to apply.

Her circumstances have fuck all bearing here. Tough shit really.

OP wasn't asking whether it was offensive to apply for the job. Clearly it's not. It was more of a moral dilemma, which I think you understand. I doubt if you were OP and Alice asked you about the job, you say "tough shit".

OP likes Alice.

Is Alice's husband abusive? If anything in his behaviour tips into emotional/coercive/financial/physical control/abuse then I wouldn't apply - I'd also do what I could to help & support Alice's application.

Ordinarily I'd say go for it but if she's unhappy in her marriage and this is what will enable her to leave, I don't think I could.

I would not apply.

Because I think there is such a thing as Karma...

I would not want to apply for that job knowing full well that this woman is desperate to get out of a bad marriage and gain her financial independence.

It might be different if you were desperate for a new job but as you were not even looking I don't see the point.

I know there’s no reason you shouldn’t apply if you fancy it, but I just couldn’t do that. I’d worry and whittle about the situation so much, I wouldn’t be able to cope.

Clearly, reading isnt your strong point - the "no offence" element is for the OP as I shared my opinion. 🙄🤦‍♂️

And actually yes, I would say tough shit, even if it was to a friend - because thats what honesty is based on - and if I couldnt say that honestly to a friend etc, then that relationship is meritless.

So yeah, it is tough shit. The vacancy is for anyone and is not earmarked because some person has some domestic tat to deal with. All people have baggage - Alice is not fucking special.

Because I think there is such a thing as Karma...

Karma would affect the husband being a dick to her (if you believe in karma), nothing whatsoever to do with other people applying to a job.

Alice's husband has a "very important job" and leaves all the childcare, cleaning, running around up to her. Some of things he has said to her are awful. I also suspect he is financially abusive eg telling her what she can spend money on and telling her that he earns more money so she doesn't get to make any decisions.

''@Fancypopop · Today 19:41

Because I think there is such a thing as Karma...
Karma would affect the husband being a dick to her (if you believe in karma), nothing whatsoever to do with other people applying to a job.''

You are missing the point entirely.

I would not feel comfortable getting that job in the OP's shoes and I would be concerned about things turning sour.

The husband being a dick to her as the consequence that ''Alice'' is planning to leave him.

Basically the concept of Karma to me is just that I don't go about life behaving like a dick and I treat people the way I want to be treated.

There are many jobs out there, I would never feel the need to compete with a woman I like and who is trying to escape a shitty marriage when I was not even looking for a new job in the first place.

Easy to understand surely...

@HelplessSoul ''And actually yes, I would say tough shit, even if it was to a friend - because thats what honesty is based on - and if I couldnt say that honestly to a friend etc, then that relationship is meritless.
So yeah, it is tough shit. The vacancy is for anyone and is not earmarked because some person has some domestic tat to deal with. All people have baggage - Alice is not fucking special.''

What you call ''honesty'' is just callousness.

Don't be surprised if you end up with no friends with this type of attitude.

Ok- so do what you feel comfortable with then, by my point is- its has zero to do with "karma" and you wont be punished in some way for applying for a flipping job.

What if Alice goes for it and doesnt get it- then they both lose out. does that mean OP cannot apply for any future jobs either, just in case she might be up against Alice again. How long should OP put off applying just in case?

Silly.

I would apply. I have been in a similar situation from the Alice perspective, and I didn't begrudge the other person applying (neither of us got the job in the end).

The key thing here is that if you apply and are successful, it doesn't mean that Alice would have got the job if you hadn't.

While it's good to care about the people you work with, you need to draw an invisible line, because ultimately at work, people come and people go, but you are stuck with the career choices you've made.

My motto is, never make a career choice based on personalities - your amazing manager, your work 'best friend' - they can all move on (or be moved on) at the drop of a hat. The only time it's acceptable to consider personalities is if you need to escape a toxic environment that's damaging your mental health.

While I agree with what you're saying, in this case OP wasn't going to apply, would only do so to make frivolous changes to her life (more shoes).
In this very particular situation I think OP could skip this opportunity.

I see what you're saying, but my point is that the OP not applying by no means guarantees that Alice will get the job. Also, whenever you apply for a job, you have no idea who else might be applying and how desperately they might need it. You wouldn't hold off applying for a job you liked the sound of, in case there might be someone else out there applying who needs it more than you.

If the OP will feel bad about it, of course she can choose not to apply - I'm saying she has no moral obligation to withhold her application, which might in any case achieve absolutely nothing.

Apply. It might only be a bit of extra pocket money now, but you need to think long term. This promotion could be an important step on the ladder. What if you spot your dream job in two years’ time? What’s going to look better on your CV - that, after two years with your current company, you won an internal promotion, or that you got a job, spent four years in it and are now looking to step up? Not that I’m saying anything is wrong with the latter - but if you want to apply for something more senior further down the line, being able to demonstrate that you’ve done it before will be an important feather in your cap.

Alice could get the job and still not leave her husband

This is a very important point. What if Alice gets the job and convinces herself that now they’ve got more money coming in, other knock-on issues in the marriage (e.g. stress over bills leading to tension) will resolve themselves and things will get better? She might be deluding herself to think that, but it doesn’t mean it won’t happen.

At the end of the day, this job is not within your gift. This isn’t a situation where you and Alice are the only two candidates and, if you withdraw, she gets it by default. (Even then, you wouldn’t have any control over whether your employer decided to readvertise, reassess the role etc..) You have no way of knowing that it will be a straight choice between you. And you’re taking a big risk for someone you might not even be in touch with a few years down the line.

I personally wouldnt. If i was happy in my role and not looking I wouldnt want to increase the competition to someone that it meant so much to.

Yes, she might not get it anyway and it might go to someone else entirely. But if it means it would give her the the means to leave a relationship shes unhappy in, vs giving me more money to fritter away. I couldn't do that.