Beginning to agree “ working class “ are getting less send support.

[Passthebiscuit12]

the news articles have been talking about this a lot in the recent days. They have also been some terrible articles about well off parents getting support when not needed for exams etc.

I never really thought about it before however my DC is what they call an “ inbetweener” we applied for Sen schools in the area and they said no due to not fitting in their cohort ( academically behind but not enough and is able )

mainstreams said no as too complex. We were lucky that none is the mainstreams said yes and they couldn’t place in any of the local maintained Sen schools that Dc was placed in an independent Sen school that runs mainstream education. This school has higher than average fees due to it being classed as Sen. But academics are great with 100 percent English GCSEs 4-9.
its a unique school and we do love it but 100 percent of the children were LA funded ( doesn’t shock me ) but out of 19 in DC year only 2 are what you call “ working class “ including us. The other family was lucky to know how to manage tribunal but it was a fight to get their place. I wonder why there is not a higher average of working class children in the school considering no one is paying fees and the LA are. I would of imagined there would have been more of a mixture of backgrounds.

do you think it is harder for working / lower class to get the support for their Sen children from the LA ?

My daughter’s gym membership is vital to her physical health. She isn’t able to access the usual activities her peers do because they don’t cater for disabled children. Riding lessons would be excellent for her, according to her physiotherapist it’s absolutely the best thing for her core muscles and difficult to replicate. Unfortunately A) she is not at all been on horses and B) the Riding for the disabled charity is massively over subscribed. If she were up for it, I’d be getting her riding lessons. If there is funding available for kids like her who’s parents don’t have the money, that’s a good thing.

Don’t underestimate how difficult it is for some disabled children to access sports.

The root problem is politicians giving LAs statutory duties but not then giving them the funding to deliver those duties. So the only way LAs can avoid bankruptcy is to make it as difficult as possible for people to claim the things that by law they should be entitled to. That in turn means the only way to get anywhere as a claimant is to be extremely sharp-elbowed and not everyone has the capability and resources to do that.

The Scottish Government tried to fix this by having a “Named Person” who’s responsibility it was to guide parents through it, to be the one port of call for all issues, help with signposting to services etc. They tried to roll it out across schools for all pupils and were met with an uproar (from parents of non disabled kids) citing big brother and government over reach, so it was dropped. The scheme is still in place for disabled children (if you choose) but because it is a disability only service, it’s poorly funded and badly delivered.

"The parents are all using solicitors.they have EOTAS ..and are getting sailing lessons horse riding lessons"

My son gets EOTAS. I would rather he had a place in the local special school or college but they won't take him.

It is important to remember more money does not equal more love, however more money helps buy support and therapies that can help SEN children.

I don't think that the state education system is a good fit for many children and therefore the children that 40 or 50 years ago needed a teacher to hold their hand or explain things in a different way is now lost to the SEN system. These children are often academically bright, yet require more social and emotional care.

Last week, I came across a lady who had a child with a very similar presentation of ASC to my own. She seemed completely bogged down in the system and referenced problems with her child's primary several times within the 30 or so minutes of interaction. She had a notebook and was even making notes about what I was saying too. I wondered whether she had no support for herself and this was why she was struggling so much.

I found myself thinking that I was very lucky to have had the money, support and balls to force adjustments for my child who happens to fit the above bright but needs help socially category.

We happened to choose a primary school which was small, caring and gave most children the time of their life. Added costs are however requires for trips and extras. If I had to work a fulltime job or was dependent on benefits and used wrap around care, my DCs outcome would have been much poorer.

We found a naice, small indie which will cater to the social emotion needs of DC for senior school. They had to pass an entrance exam and therefore was tutored, again at additional cost. Otherwise, they'd be at the mercy of the local state secondary. I'd literally have remortgaged my house to prevent that outcome.

So in conclusion, yes, more articulate/middle class/highly educated parents achieve the desired outcomes to help their children. Not because working class parents are feckless, but because the state education system is designed to create round pegs for round holes. Its not broken, its just wrong.

My sister has 3 degrees, a youth work degree, a pgce and a msc in psychology. She applied for a EHCP for her youngest on her own as the primary was awful with support. She fought hard for 18 months, pushed , chased up paediatric services to get specifically worded sentences and paragraphs. It was easily a 14-16 hours a week job at times and she cried more times than I can count. And she’s a very strong, intelligent and determined woman. Another one of the kids that was in the same class, he was dyslexic and his mum was diagnosed dyslexic, she’d even been to the same primary 14 years before and the head teacher KNEW she was dyslexic. Yet they gaslit her and made her kids life unbearable, referring her for parenting courses etc. refusing to entertain her. My sister offered to help her with official complaints and an EHCP but the woman was mortified that she even needed help and then within 12 months she removed her kid from school to “home school” . And I honestly doubt that kid has ever had an actual education at home ever. His mum was broken from her own experience.

so yes. I do think it’s the better educated greasy wheel that gets the oil. And unfortunately, in very poor areas, people sometimes don’t want to send their kids out of the area or jump through hoops to get help. I live in a very very poor area, and some families have lived within the same council estates for 3-4 generations. Very few people ever really leave. Is very common to see people go to college or move away and come back 3-4 years later.

the special unit my DN is now in is in main stream school and perfect for him but he has a language processing disorder and autism and basically has amnesia for letters so will likely never read or write beyond the most simple basic level. And although they try their best he barely does any work and the unit costs a fortune. But it’s only got 5/6 students in and can take 22. So I don’t understand this “shortage” of places in SEN units at all. He was the 3rd student and he’s been there 18 months! And it’s not just for kids that can’t follow mainstream, they do send students to mainstream classes when they can manage.

...his whole attitude changed - because the older 2 were bright, and well behaved. I felt he had taken me for a not bothered mother, who had no clue how to bring up children and didn’t care either, but then decided I wasn’t that person. He did then listen - but whilst I understand bias and cynicism! It shouldn’t have needed this to make anyone listen.

I have also had this experience and it is unbelievable.

It makes you despair for someone who doesn't have a handy other child to be well behaved because I'm sure the genetics dice could have rolled the other way and they all could have had similar difficulties.

That really wasn’t the purpose of the Named Person scheme at all - it might have been a side benefit, the Supreme Court judged it an over reach of government powers and they were right to do so. The Scottish Government pursued it against strong opposition from professionals, and lost the case.

Of course it’s harder. Navigating the ehcp process is a nightmare. It’s all very well having the “access” to the same information but if you’re working two jobs and bringing up several children where do you find the time to look at the information. If you’re not benefitted from a decent education you will find it more difficult to navigate.

I don’t think anyone is intending this to be patronising but an observation that it shouldn’t be so bloody difficult and it should be accessible to all.

This, plus it's not uncommon for some parents if children with learning disabilities to have parents who have learning needs. For those families it is virtually impossible to navigate and challenge the the system.

Exactly the same. When I tell my Mum "I calmly spoke to DD's head today to ask them how they were going to address X problem, and discussed that if not addressed the consequences would be Y", she looks at me all agog "gosh, how are you brave enough to do that, I would never be able to do that". It's not having money which enables a person to do that, it's the belief in having an ability to make effective change which makes someone feel they can confidently take on a battle. If someone has been pushed down and not listened to their whole life, they may feel that either it's not worth speaking up, or that shouting is the only way to be heard. It's about life experiences, or social capital, not about what job someone does, how much money they have or where they come from. Making it about class is a massive oversimplification. I knew my mum would never fight battles for me so I learnt how to effectively fight them for myself. I am trying to take a more balanced approach with my girls, fighting battles where needed whilst trying to pass on the skills for them to gradually do that for themselves.

I don't think it's harder for them to get the support form the LA as such, that's equally hard for everyone but I guess some working class people won't have the knowledge/ability or time to look into and manage complaints, send tribunals etc.

This.

The parents I know with children in these types of schools have fought for it in a way not everyone would be able to, and in fact both families have a post graduate educated mother who gave up her career for several years because the relevant child was long term school refusing (in one case) arguably die to a completely unsuitable school placement or completely without a school place (in the other). Both mothers invested full time hours in fighting for the funded private SEN school place alongside attempting homeschooling. In fact it would be interesting to see what percentage of the children have a parent with a legal or other relevant background themselves...

Absolute respect to the families who fight the system and get a place obviously, but at the same time it's absolutely ethically wrong that the children who most need the places don't have any chance at all of getting one.

We have eotas and an equine based alternative provision. I didn't use a solicitor. In fact a solicitor is utterly useless unless you have the right evidence. Which I did, hence a court upholding it. A solicitor can't get things just because they're a solicitor.

You can get legal aid for send appeals.

@Passthebiscuit12 like every other form of formal education, the poor get a rubbish deal.

A lot of it is at school level. I was going through that battle to get DD2 an EHCP at the same time as another child was struggling. DD2 was dealt with through SEN. The other child was dealt with through the discipline system. I've seen it time and time again. DD3, similar. I got what she needed. Other parents get nothing.

Schools tell parents things that aren't true. Some parents believe them and aren't in a position to question it, or challenge it.

I’m an ex primary SENCO and had to leave my job due to the stress of this kind of scenario.
im so happy for you that your child got an appropriate place. “Wins” like this are so rare for parents.
The system is so broken, and yes, I firmly believe that local authorities just hope parents give up fighting. Particularly if they are low income.
I decided I couldn’t do this any more unless I retrained as a SEN lawyer.
It’s an appalling state of affairs.

That is definitely the case in our school.

Part of that is money. The wait is so long for diagnosis that unless you’re able to pay for it, your child is already 3 years of support behind.

Part of that is being able to argue your case. I’m in my 40s and an articulate, able parent who can advocate for my child. Despite factual knowledge about the inheritability of neurodiversity, less articulate parents end up on a merry-go-round of parenting courses without referrals and meaningful support in school.

They didn't say anything about intelligence?

Sorry and what exactly are Labour doing about it? Oh yeah, kicking the white paper into the long grass until 2026....then probably 2027 etc

People can’t keep on blaming the austerity measures. I suppose Covid didn’t help and some authorities are worse than others, but there has been a lot more referral’s too ( the Panorama programme I watched with Kellie Bright had the exact statistics and they were all much higher than ever)
The system is broken, but there seems to be other factors too than just what has happened historically.

Hmm depends on the school. Where I work I would say it's who shouts the most gets the most help. This actually might be the 'working class' parents as they have time to hang around the school catching the sendco every day at the gate, dropping in to speak to the headteacher about whether things are being done, taking their child back home again if they don't think the school are listening.
Whereas in contrast the 'middle classes' don't have the same pester power. The child might need to be dropped off by a grandparent or (if able to) attend extended hours clubs. They wait for a response from staff if they do contact, rather than immediately wait to catch them the same day to ask what is happening.

So basically I think it comes down to who makes the most noise and becomes a 'nuisance' to the school. This could be either class, but where I work it is generally the working class.

This.

People have to shout louder though ! The ones you see being interviewed about their children and issues with the authorities all say the same thing , if you don’t push hard enough then your overlooked or ‘ fobbed ‘ off. What are people with genuine concerns about their child and their educational needs , meant to do?